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What Executives Really Think of MBAs

Tags: MBA, Information Technology, Sales, Woolf, Geoffrey James, Truth, Business School, Education, Management, BNET Feature

Recruiters and managers long have touted MBA-holders as the panacea for business problems, but recently, the view within the executive ranks has become more nuanced. Here’s what an assortment of experienced executives had to say about the prospect of adding an MBA to their team:

Value the Program, Not the Degree

“When I have hired young people from a great program like Babson, I often see that they have acquired a great tool kit that they are eager to apply to a real job. Unfortunately, too often when I have employed people from a top-ranked, high-end program, they spend a lot of energy wishing they could leap over the years of grinding experience and just get to the job they think they should have already — CEO. In those cases, MBAs can be a blight on the team, which needs to value diversity, experience, and the particularities of a business and an industry.”

— Frank Ingari, former CEO of Shiva Software and now Chairman of Purkinje, a provider of practice management services to physicians and hospitals.

Hard-Working, High-Maintenance

“MBAs are often enthusiastic, smart, young people that bring some analysis rigor to an organization. However, you must keep them channeled and focused, or they may run down an analysis rat hole. They require time and energy and interesting projects. If you give them such assignments, they will work 80 hours a week. They also need perspective on the projects they are assigned: What is the desired outcome? What might be a good approach? Who are the project stakeholders? MBAs can be at the top of the tree looking out over the strategic horizon while the real workers in the organization are at the trunk of the tree firing up the chainsaw.”

— Ken Evans, former VP of sales and marketing at Waste Management, currently a management consultant at CP Strategies.

Dropouts Make Better Entrepreneurs

“Nobody would argue that it makes more sense to hire a college dropout and former disk jockey like myself rather than a Harvard MBA. However, the high-tech world is full of college dropouts that have made good. And among that group which includes [Bill] Gates, [Larry] Ellison, [Michael] Dell and [Steve] Jobs I am the underachiever. If you look at what we hold in common, it’s that we’re all too fiercely entrepreneurial to have the patience for going to classes and getting certified. There are just some people who are driven to start a business, and those are the ones who aren’t likely to spend time earning an MBA.”

— Mitchell Kertzman, venture capitalist at Hummer Winblad and former CEO of Sybase, Powersoft, and Liberate Technologies. (Note: Kertzmann was formerly a member of the Board of Directors of CNET Networks, BNET’s parent company)

Practical Experience Is a Necessary Foundation for Theory

“We provide a great deal of training to our managers and prospective managers, much of which starts where their MBA training might have ended. We find that in order to understand and implement business strategy, you must first understand the practical business situations that give rise to theory, rather than the other way around. In addition, much of the management work that takes place here deals with groups of engineers who are very different to manage than other types of personnel. Unfortunately, a lot of the theoretical training in business schools simply doesn’t address the requirements of a global engineering environment.”

— Fred Wise, director of staffing at National Semiconductor Corporation, a computer chip maker with $2 billion in annual sales.

Salespeople Don’t Need MBAs

“If you’re talking about a sales position, I’d have to say that the MBA is pretty much useless. If you’re talking about an executive position, an MBA is useful, but only marginally. The sad truth is that the training is just too theoretical to make any difference.”

— Brad Finn, former top sales executive at Jones Apparel Group, the $5 billion-a-year clothing giant, current president of Marlboro Corporation, a multi-million dollar shoe wholesaler.

MBAs in IT

“MBAs are marvelous additions to an IT organization. They generally have the right business demeanor, as well as knowledge of economics, finance and accounting, as well as some theoretical understanding of how to manage people. And that’s all to the good. Second, and more importantly and you have to have a lot of confidence as a CIO to do this if you bring MBAs into your IT organization and keep them in the organization for two to three years, you can then seed them into other user departments where they’ll likely be accepted because they’ve got the MBA. They’ll naturally have a certain degree of loyalty to the IT group, which can significantly enhance your ability to work IT issues throughout the company.”

— Jack Cooper, former CIO of Bristol Myers/Squibb and Seagram, and founder of JM Cooper & Associates, a provider of consulting to IT management.

The Hard Truth

“You Harvard guys don’t know crap about the way businesses really run.”

— Howard Woolf, then a director of marketing at DEC, to a trio of consultants with Harvard MBAs as overheard by the author. Woolf is now president of the Converged Billing Solution Group at Comverse, a $1 billion-a-year provider of multimedia services.

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  • justinga10/18/07 Report as spam
    1

    It's About The Team

    I think the real power from an MBA's perspective is working with the team. Simply because one has a graduate degree in business doesn't make s/he superior. I hold an MBA and honestly, my current level of acceptance and performance is based on my ability to work with a team of great individuals by using my skills to supplement the effort to accomplish goals. Coming into my current employer, I was straight out of grad school and knew that I had a lot to learn and the key is to learn to work with the team and to work toward team and organizational goals. By taking this approach, I have really obtained a sense of accomplishment and enjoyment from my job which translates into better working relationships and improved performance int he eyes of management. The answer isn't always in books and theories and it is often found int he way people really work, do business, and interact.

  • Geoffrey James, Sales Machine10/22/07 Report as spam
    2

    Question

    One of the complaints that I heard about MBA programs is that they talked about teams, but there was very little actually experience working as a team. Was that your experience?

  • lawrenced10/23/07 Report as spam
    3

    MBA to gain experience of team work

    I think a lack of team working is a fair criticism of many MBA programmes, but not universally true.
    I’ve experience of two programmes: one lacked any significant group delivered programmes; the other had a significant emphasis. I’d suggest that the reason is that group projects are more difficult for the Business School to structure, manage, assess and moderate. Group work also creates a range of additional “real world” problems such as role assignments, the complications of scheduling commitments, and team dynamics ( - mostly people getting on with each other under pressure). These are, of course, the very things that make MBA programmes that include group work so much more valuable!
    So, for anyone keen to gain some team working experience AND an MBA – chose your programme very carefully and question the Programme Director to satisfy yourself that their idea of teamwork meets your aims.

  • ddavids7510/25/07 Report as spam
    4

    RE: Question

    The program I was in was very team focused. The program was organized in cohorts so you went through the classes with pretty much the same group and each class all had semester long group work associated with it. I was able to learn a lot about the dynamics of working in a team including how to deal with underperformers and how to let someone else's contribution stand even if I didn't entirely agree with their position.

  • sebolen11/06/07 Report as spam
    5

    Re: Question

    I am in an online MBA program and every class has learning teams. Usually this is for large papers, however we have also had team simulations and we truly need to work together as a team since we are relying on the other team members to do their part. My worst team experience was one where one of the members asked the professor to resubmit a better paper in place of the one in which we earned a B, the professor said yes, but I and another team member (not the one that asked) did the entire paper over for a better grade. We were so mad that we put it in our commments that we were happy with a B and were willing to work extra hard on the final, and did not appreciate getting permission for a redo, but then not doing any work. The teammate and I that worked on the paper had our grades replace with an A.

  • aaronsmith301/02/08 Report as spam
    6

    All about the team

    I spent 9 years in the Navy. So teamwork is all I know. I smile thinking about going to my first interviews as an MBA grad because I know that even though I won't be graduating from a top tier grad school, I know that I have the experience to more than push me over the top. I think that businesses are too concerned with getting those grads from "top tier" schools than they are getting people with well honed experience.

  • aaronsmith301/02/08 Report as spam
    7

    Forgive me

    I misread your question. So... my MBA is all online, which is what I need because of my wife's illness. So everything we do is team oriented, from beginning to end. We are placed into groups of four every new seminar so we work with everyone in our class. All of our work is done as teams (discussions, case assignments, etc) which allows us to draw on everyones experience and perspectives. It may not be the best MBA program, but what it lacks in prestige, it makes up for in valuable experience.

  • cbrazvan@...10/23/07 Report as spam
    8

    re: It's About The Team

    Indeed. the MBA, like any manager in fact, should actually be above all an integrator, not a commander.
    That means, working and understanding your team firstly. Then comes the rest.
    Good point.

  • ZFlash10/22/07 Report as spam
    9

    RE: null

    The fact is that experience can never be taught in a classroom. However, the tools one obtains in an educational venue are a valuble asset on the experiencial road and creates a richer product. So, an MBA? Sure, but not without experience.

  • cbrazvan@...10/23/07 Report as spam
    10

    Mandatory Business Gaming

    Well, I'd suggest adding to MBA programs mandatory business gaming.

    Make that business game a large part of the MBA course...
    Use virtual stocks... Use virtual companies and use good business models to train your students (such as the one in L'Oreal e-Strat competition)

    You learn by playing and at the end of the MBA you'll have a minimal experience at hand...

    This is done to some extent in all MBA programs (at least I would expect that is being done). But I think it just needs to be implemented at a large scale and use the virtual business as a backbone for the MBA studies.

    I took my driver's license very, very late - I was 29. 2 months before training I started experimenting with Need For Speed and a logitech wheel. When I got into the car, the instructor thought I am mocking him: "You did take lessons before, haven't you? You don't need to learn much right now..."


    ...Just another unexperienced MBA...

  • msada10/23/07 Report as spam
    11

    MBA = start-up boss

    The MBA is a passport to first experience. An MBAthat has not made it to top management by his 29th anniversary should be either a start-up boss or self-employed... In any other case his salary is well beyond his added-value !

  • RRAMBIBAMBI10/23/07 Report as spam
    12

    RE: null

    I think that an MBA is a distinctive business card for the first experiences - very helpful. While you proceed with your proffesional life, the fact that you hold an MBA will count less. Real experience and knowledge will take over.

  • trainaid@...10/23/07 Report as spam
    13

    MBA

    The problem is universities teach More Business Analysis(MBA)when all we want in busianess is More Bloody Action (MBA). Please excuse profanity but profanity is the result of frustration and frustration is the result of paralysis of analysis.
    MBA should stand for Making Businesses Achieve.
    Cheers
    Cliff Bradshaw

  • mcrey_banderlipe10/23/07 Report as spam
    14

    If you want to go back to school,

    Then pursue a graduate degree in your field of specialization. It may be a research or a professional degree, but you can also learn practical leadership and business intelligence especially if you started applying what you have learned.

  • nicolewelz10/23/07 Report as spam
    15

    RE: null

    I disagree with the notion that MBA's are usefull first experiences. To my mind, the value of an MBA is best gained when one has already acquired working experience, so the degree ends up honing those skills. Doing an MBA in your early twenties, or even late twenties, is a waste of time, and no wonder that it leads to frustation on the part of employers and the graduates who believe they deserve a rapid climb to the top.

  • elvamoser10/23/07 Report as spam
    16

    Pursuing a graduate degree in your field or specialization

    You're right about pursuing an advanced degree in your field or specialization. I should have pursued an MA-Marketing instead of the MBA.

    Still, I won't say I'm sorry for the MBA experience or education. It was not a waste of time or money.

  • LSmutz10/23/07 Report as spam
    17

    MA vs. MBA?

    Elvamoser--This is the exact predicament I am in--going for my MA in I/O Psychology or the MBA. Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Please help :)

  • elvamoser10/29/07 Report as spam
    18

    MA vs MBA

    Hi. I would do the MA Marketing - because that's what I like. And I'm always reading up on subjects I wish I would have studied formally.

    The MBA is better for my current job, though. I'm a consultant, mostly for start-ups. 80% of our work is feasibility studies.

    However, personally, the MBA has impressed more people (from a job-hunting perspective anyway) because they believe that the MBA education is 'well-rounded'. I gotta agree.

    In my fantasies, I'm a product manager. That's what I really want to be. This consulting gig is giving me great experience. So, when I'm ready, I'll get my dream job.

    best of luck.
    elva moser

  • aaronsmith301/02/08 Report as spam
    19

    It depends

    Specializing can narrow your employment options, but if you know that all you want to do is marketing then specialize. Having an MBA allows you to explore many more options but tends to give you a broader perspective on things. I could have done my Masters in Accountancy, but accouting BORES me. So getting my MBA allows me to be able to explore more options other than accounting. You just have to know what you want to do. Either way, having your Masters is a good thing, no matter what it's in.

  • healinglyt01/02/08 Report as spam
    20

    MBA vs MA/MS

    I have been in the workforce awhile. Long enough to have seen several trends come and go. Anyone remember the Nehru Jacket?
    In the past few years I decided I needed to make a change, so after many fits and starts I finished by BSBA and found a job at a large corporation that offers tuition reimbursement. I then did some serious research into which business degree offers the best ROI and which would give me the greatest flexibility while providing a meaningful credential in return for my hard work.
    My conclusion is that the MBA is just too broad a body of knowledge to really prepare you for a job. I chose to enter a MAcc program instead (I work in the mutual fund industry)..I'll graduate in 2 1/2 years with a MS in accounting and the CPA while still working full time. I feel that the MS (in your chosen field be it marketing,accounting or whatever) is just more applicable to career growth. If you can afford to go to a TOP TEN school then maybe you can get an MBA to pay off (but only after having paid 100k+ in tuition).
    While MBA's may garner high starting salaries they also have a very long, hard learning curve that is needed to learn their chosen industry and move into the higher organizational levels. My research has led me to firmly believe that the future trend of business grad degrees is towards more specialized knowledge.
    The above article just serves to reinforce what I've been thinking :the panache of the of the MBA is starting to fizzle! When I graduate in a few years I don't want to be the proud holder of a degree that is then out of fashion. Anyone want my old Nehru Jacket?

  • donmurdo10/23/07 Report as spam
    21

    MBA degress are of great value!

    Whoa Nelly. Most of the neigh sayers (pun intended) are forgetting a CRITICAL aspect of their analysis. When hiring a fresh college graduate from whatever program, those people need to learn YOUR business in order to be effective. I'd wager that a person w/ an MBA can be just as, if not more effective, at a business leadership position than others w/o the advanced degree. Remember - an MBA is about sweat equity, not just taking classes. We LEARN. We have proven that we can LEARN your business - and we have the academic rigor and backfill in numerous areas to help any business.

  • healinglyt01/02/08 Report as spam
    22

    Very True

    Your point is well taken...however if we are talking ROI there are some good arguments for just going to work and learning an industry whether you need and an MBA or not then becomes a meaningful question...I think that going from college to biz school (directly) is a bad idea. Spending some time in the work world and maybe being in management before going for the MBA (at which point the candidate is better prepared to understand the meaning behind the theory) should give a student of business a better rounded education on which to further build their career. The MBA doesn't make you a business leader, being a business leader would make you a better MBA!

  • joanie.tonkinson10/23/07 Report as spam
    23

    MBA's and business Experience

    I personally think that the business schools do a disservice to prospective MBA graduates by allowing students to enroll in MBA programs sans real world business experience. Kudos to the business schools that require no less than three years practical business experience before accepting an applicant into the MBA education track.

  • elvamoser10/23/07 Report as spam
    24

    MBAs & Business Experience

    Yes. I learned as much from my class discussions as I did from the professor or t-books.

    At my school (Univ. of Dallas), the majority of students were older (average age = 34) working professionals with an average of 10 years’ experience. They came from such diverse industries and for the most part, they were motivated.

  • FredinNZ10/23/07 Report as spam
    25

    Re Experience

    I agree entirely. Indeed, the MBA I chose required a minimum of five years' working experience, including significant time in a managerial role. The average age was 37 in my year (my age at the time), although the majority were older than that. The wealth of collective experience in the lecture rooms, and the discussions we had, probably taught more than the lecturers and text books. Of course, we all learn in different ways and there will always be the ocassional story of a youngster going through B-school straight from uni and doing well; but making that the norm seems crazy to me. I'd never hire one, that's for sure.

  • Somadina10/23/07 Report as spam
    26

    MBA is FIRSTLY for your self development

    When you consider that an MBA can serve dual purposes - job opportunity and self development/realization - you'll probably summarize that MBA is very good to hold.

    If you're on a job already, the impediment to your much-expected career progression is quite unlikely your MBA. Or maybe it is - if you have a running prejudice in your organization against MBA's. Unless there are organizational changes from the top, it might be tough-going getting a relevant new job where you will apply what you have learnt. It is possible that there will be limited understanding within your organization of the transformation you have been through. It will take some real effort on your part - and plenty of relationship building - to be recognized.

    I hold a good MBA (cum high distinction from Curtin). One thing I've found out is that my MBA has made me think more of the things I can do on my own. If I'm invited by any organization to apply my learning in its business, well OK, otherwise I feel I can do even more positive things on my own. It gets to a point you begin to think that MBA is not about using your certicate to pursue someone else's (possibly a school drop-out) smart business idea but creating a business idea yourself. It makes you want to get out of any stifling organization pretty fast, whenever you can afford to.

    Best wishes to all of you MBA holders out there. Think positive, think more MBA...

  • An Expat in France10/24/07 Report as spam
    27

    Right on the money!

    The true value of the MBA cannot really be measured by someone who hasn't been personally exposed to the candidate's pre-MBA performance. Some people are successful because they work hard; others because they got lucky. But either way, an MBA will never have concrete value to someone who doesn't recognize the role of an MBA in personal development.

    An MBA represents the individual's commitment to a continuous learning process. I doubt there's a B-School grad out there who won't acknowledge that the process of earning the degree exposed or helped them to define some gap in their personal skill set and helpled them to close it. Anyone meeting the individual post-MBA for the first time isn't going to see the transformation, but companies can surely exploit it, if they see the opportunity. Bottom line: An MBA is what the candidate makes of it; and it's value to a company is the candidate's ability to apply what they acquired from the program effectively.

    Several of the quotes in this series of articles assert that MBA programs focus too much on theory and abstract. While that may not be valued in the US, a solid understanding of releveant management theory can be incredibly valuable when trying to understand and influence colleagues who come from other cultures. Granted, you can gain that knowledge without an MBA, but some cultures (e.g.: France) regard academic credentials very highly; a Master's-level degree shouldn't be devalued, becuase it can gain you very real leverage when working abroad. Gates, Jobs, Dell and the others mentioned in this article can tell you that despite their ultimate success, doing business outside the US is VERY different, even if you're the boss. Continuous learning is required in order to survive in business; what, where and how you choose to learn is up to you, and will ultimately determines your success.

  • elvamoser10/29/07 Report as spam
    28

    MBA & Entrepreneurship

    I like your response very much. I have met so many MBAs whose greatest ambition now is working for themselves.

    They may have started out with the 'promotion, corner office' fantasy, but as they progressed in their curriculum, they found an entrepreneurial bone or two. Good for them!

  • lbs197810/23/07 Report as spam
    29

    Mba validity

    All I ever heard as I grew up was that in order to get a great nice-paying job
    you had to have a degree! And each subsequent brought you that much closer
    to a great position. This might hold true if you start this straight out of
    college or maybe it was true years ago--this doesn't seem to be the case for
    me! As a person who was a photographer for several years and then laid off
    from a government contractor and then returned to finish my bachelor's at 43
    and then getting my MBA at 49 it has not paid off. I should also mention that I
    live in a small midwest town with low-paying jobs. I am now wondering about
    why I did it and why I went into debt with student loans etc...I am not sure if I
    will ever re-coup the expense.

  • mea@...10/23/07 Report as spam
    30

    Personality goes a long way!

    The article itself, and the comments regarding it seem to be very one dimensional in that they only look at the fact that a person has an MBA. If you look at a typical class of MBA students you will see that there is a very diverse group of people, as in all aspects of life: there are some who will rise to the top because they not only have the academic smarts, drive and personality and there are others who are book smart but have no common sense, etc. etc.

    How far a person goes and how successful they are depends on their personality, and how they can apply what they have done to a non textbook scenario.

    If you look at the comments in the article it is interesting to read the derision that comes from some, and yet many of the high tech startups end up hiring more business savvy people (predominantly with MBA's) once their company reaches a certain level of maturity.

  • Edsahara10/23/07 Report as spam
    31

    MBA degree?

    Was just wondering how many of the executives who were quoted had an MBA. Some of their harsh comments may stem from their envy in not having the degree.

  • beddoe10/23/07 Report as spam
    32

    Character, Not Book Smarts...

    It's character & competence, not book smarts, that makes a true leader.

    THE TOP ELEVEN (1+10) TRAITS OF SUCCESSFUL LEADERS
    -by Wally Beddoe [ usmc81@gmail.com ]

    Character: A very broad term encompassing every characteristic and trait that makes you who you are. Your character is the product of the remaining ten traits below.

    Competence: The ability and skill set to get the job done and execute proficiently.

    Confidence: Be decisive; make sure your body language and demeanor reflect confidence.

    Courage: Steadfastness; Act despite reprisal or fear.

    Emotional Maturity: A managed and controlled response, coolness; thick skin.

    Empathy: Knowing how actions, events, or words affect others; putting yourself in other's shoes.

    Enthusiasm: Excitement; motivating others to endure.

    Integrity: Ethics; always does what's right. Honest.

    Responsibility: Taking ownership in objectives, sacrificing and setting the example.

    Humility: A well-managed sense of humor goes a long way.

    Vision: Entrepreneurial; maintaining a 30,000-foot perspective; keeping the customer in mind at all times.

  • vkarukonda10/23/07 Report as spam
    33

    RE: null

    I am in an EMBA program at Pepperdine. Question to ask here is What is MBA worth to me as someone going thru the progrm. It is definitely adding more theoretical as well as some practical knowledge to my data bank. And in the working world, I hope to have a wholistic approach to issues, and with my MBA, I know I can make better decisions than before. It is helping me a great deal in every walk of business world. When I come out of the program, I have better tools and knowledge on how to run business that I did not have from my past 10 years of management experience.

  • donnmon@...10/23/07 Report as spam
    34

    2 Harvards, 1 Wharton, 2 Marshall

    That I've worked with and managed. Not much imagination or creativity, but can put together a heck of an Excel and PowerPoint.

  • aaronsmith301/02/08 Report as spam
    35

    That is HILLARIOUS

    I'm so glad you mentioned this point. It's my one detractor from going to work for IB's because ALL they seem to want are kids from the top-tiered schools with the best grades. It's ridiculous. A very close friend of mine who is 4th down from Steve Appleton got her bachelors from, of all places, ITT Tech!! And she has a kid who works for her whose first words out of his mouth were, "I have my MBA from Brown". He no longer works there.

  • ksohi@...10/23/07 Report as spam
    36

    MBA was a severe waste of Money & Time in Canada

    I recently got my MBA in Canada. I was ready to quit after the first month and a half but my fellow MBA..ers encouraged me to keep up with it. I unfortunately listened to them and lost. I think I could have done better without it or at least an MBA in the US (even an unknown school). If you want well paid jobs in Canada or US... do your MBA (if you really think this is one of you life goals) in the US.

  • gleny007@...10/23/07 Report as spam
    37

    RE: null

    My MBA was valuable....not so much the curriculum but the side programs. The University of Utah had a program called LaunchPad where MBA students worked with University professors to help the professors launch businesses around the IP they had developed. Excellent training ground and an opportunity to mix theory with reality.

    I would do it over again in a heartbeat but with more emphasis on the program and even less on the classes.
    -glen young

  • bdreck10/25/07 Report as spam
    38

    The program makes all of the difference

    I think that the point about the program is valid. However, not everyone can get into a great program or afford to money or time wise. That does not mean that you can't get a lot out of a program.

    My input is that if you do not have "regular" faculty teaching (PhDs), then the program is going to questionable. Honestly, can a Masters level person (or lower) really teach a Masters class? I don't think so overall.

    Avoid at all costs places like University of Phoenix, where you pay top dollar to get taught by second rate instructors. I tried some distance programs with them (my only choice at one point in my life) and was very disappointed with the low quality of the majority of my instructors. My ex-boss also went through their MBA program and he was misinformed about a lot of tools and had no idea on how to properly use them. For example, he wanted to do a discounted cash flow on a project that would end two years in the future. (His undergrad degree was from them too and honestly, he was the dumbest guy I've ever worked for.)

    There are too many good and less expensive alternatives, even via the internet to have to settle for University of Phoenix.

  • elvamoser10/29/07 Report as spam
    39

    Ph.D. faculty

    I want to discuss a using strictly Ph.D. faculty. In theory I agree - and endorse the practice. But..

    Some of the best teachers I had were adjunct faculty - not all of them had a doctorate. But they had so much experience.

    One of the hardest and instructor I had held 2 masters (electrical engineering plus an MBA). He taught B2B Mktg, of all things. But, he had real work experience. He had been a mktg mgr of a tech. prod. line.

    One of my favorite instructors had just an MBA. He taught Data Analysis (statistics). He taught statistics from a marketing perspective - not a math perspective. GREAT class. he left to open a B&Breakfast in Oregon.

    My B-school is forcing adjunct faculty to pursue the Ph.D. or leave. They require it for accreditation.

  • btors10/30/07 Report as spam
    40

    MBA Validity

    I would recommend the following based on my own experiences:
    An MBA is time critical - only work at the most three years before returning for your MBA. Unfortunately, the firms that recruited at our school were only interested in those candidates that were in their 20's to early 30's. Consider a dual concentration - I have Finance and IT. The IT portion was useless, since I had been working in the industry for years prior to returning for my MBA. If possible, attend as full time student - the experience is fantastic especially if you are a real team oriented individual!

    As to the payback of an MBA - I can only respond with my own experiences - the organization needs to be open-minded, able to provide multi-skilled projects where you have the freedom to integrate and utilize your knowledge to solve problems. The most difficult problems - the ability to explain to management the what, why, and how you have come to business decisions.

    In my own case, the MBA has not proved to be an asset, but I attribute it to the organizational culture, management style, and strict hierarchical structure. Outside consultants, auditors are always impressed with my analytical work!

  • jrpatel1810/30/07 Report as spam
    41

    RE: null

    MBA - OH NO !!!

  • JoshuaPniewski11/20/07 Report as spam
    42

    MBA Hard to Get?

    MBA's have become so easy to get it isnt funny. There are so many kids out there who stay in Grad School and become GA's just so they can continue to party and avoid responsibility. With Small schools trying to boost MBA enrollment, and trying to grow and get MBA type prestige through numbers instead of quality, anyone can get into an MBA program.

    That being said, I am finishing mine, mostly because my partner sent me to school in the first place, and since I am halfway done there is no reason not to finish.

    But, what have I gotten out of the program? Absolutely nothing practical, the only thing that comes from MBA's are that corporate tight ass weasels think you are better than you are, and resent you for it.

  • aaronsmith301/02/08 Report as spam
    43

    Interesting

    I guess it depends on where you go to get your MBA as far as admissions are concerened. And I do agree with you in the fact that I have not been impressed by those who flaunt their Harvard, Kellog, MIT grad school credentials. While it is very hard to get into those schools, and they should feel proud for graduating, I haven't noticed a lot of social skills that will get them far, due to the entitlement they think they are owed. But having an MBA can be a positive if you utilize it to you and your employers benefit.

  • Proxax01/02/08 Report as spam
    44

    true!

    What you've expressed here is true indeed. A year and a half now I've been unemployed and at school. What have I learnt? Practical business sense?no Theoretical basics of the management science, economics yes. Couple of months ago I did feel what you are feeling at the moment. But take a long look at what you've done and you'll realise, that it wasn't all a wasteful decision. To go where you want to you need to know where you're coming from. Every management professional needs a brushing up with the generally accepted basics. Yes, it can be done while at work and at random times when need arises. But an MBA gives it to you in a constant stream over months (might get boring after a while) PLUS what you have mentioned about having better prospects after the degree helps. All you have to do post MBA is keeping up with new advances and keep climbing. No more inquisitiveness over where it might have evolved from when you see something at work; just knowing and keeping up. Thank you for your post. It sure helped me conclude.

    Sudeep

  • pharry@...01/02/08 Report as spam
    45

    In defense of the MBA

    While I can identify some of the argumentation I can't agree with them. Yes, some college dropouts has made it tremendously well and the rest has done, well we never hear about this....I took my MBA in a advanced age of 45 after 20 years of working as an engineer. The MBA (a modest degree from CalState that is) gave me a new look at business and the organization and propelled my career to new heights. The critic on the MBA I suggest, stem from the fact that it is assembled from the social sciences. Unlike engineering or physics, things here are seldom blank or white and this ambiguity may lead many to dispell is as "useless".
    An MBA is no different from any other education. As a fresh graduated engineer, armed with a lot of theory, I was pretty much useless for some time until I got used to the corporate life and how to apply the acquired skills. I see fresh B-school graduate no different.
    In the debate about the MBA it is often overlooked the great personal satisfaction one gets in understanding the various business disciplines better. It is not just about money. I got so exited about finance in my MBA that I subsequent pursued a MSc in Finance. Not for wealth but for sheer personal satisfaction.

  • amarjeet01/02/08 Report as spam
    46

    ROI- Reap on investment=MBA

    The difference lies in whether you are learning or merely acquiring a certificate. The attitude plays an important role.
    I believe that MBA offers challenging environment and thinking options for development. I worked for 25 years (no MBA) but now when I am seriously reading MBA stuff, I find there is lot of sense. example-Business strategy tools are good guideposts and knowing them certainly shortens your meandering approach to problems solving.Will they be solved? Maybe-Maybe not--- so what!
    You cannot be a loser either way.
    You cannot brush aside the benefits of knowledge- be it MBA....

  • rayray9401/02/08 Report as spam
    47

    MBA's

    As a graduating MBA, it is fair to hear the criticism about what an MBA graduate can and cannot provide. As a former engineer and tech consultant, I know that after I finished my engineering degree, I was nowhere near the technical expert as an engineer, and needed the practical experience that work provided -- to augment my textbook learning. I think the same applies to an MBA, all we have done is get two years of school training in the setting of a "what if you were the CEO" perspective. What makes business school so valuable is not necessarily the training (but it helps an old techie like myself who now understands finance and accounting), but other important concepts, such as critical business decision making with minimal information (and how to be comfortable with it) and how to push your self with other A-type personalities. That's the value of the MBA in my opinion, being around other motivated people who are excellent thinkers to teach someone how to push themselves into being a better person.

    Ray R Hernandez '08
    Darden Graduate School of Business
    University of Virginia

  • GrayMe01/02/08 Report as spam
    48

    Opening paragraph in the article

    I can't understand why Geoffery James at the start of the article uses the expression "...the view within the executive ranks has become more nuanced"? "Nuanced"??? Nuance means "a subtle difference or distinction in expression, meaning, response" according to dictionary.com.

    Why not use an expression like "less favourable", if that is what he means?

  • esp695201/02/08 Report as spam
    49

    MBA Degree

    Sounds like this mainly pertains to younger MBAs, not ones who back to school after some work experience. I'm interested to know which of those quoted who has an MBA and who doesn't.

  • esp695201/02/08 Report as spam
    50

    MBAs vs. Dropouts

    I like the way this story mentions just some famous non-MBA entreprenuers. How about all those who dropped out and can't get a decent job? Now that would be an interesting statistical study!

  • lkryan01/02/08 Report as spam
    51

    RE: null

    Nothing beats experience, especially in the sales field.

  • pritchdl@...01/02/08 Report as spam
    52

    Long Touted Panacea?

    The way this article begins reminds me of a morning radio show where the D.J. says something controversial just to get people to call in to the show:

    "Recruiters and managers long have touted MBA-holders as the panacea for business problems, but recently, the view within the executive ranks has become more nuanced."

    Are you kidding me? I doubt there has ever been a time when recruiters and managers touted MBA-holders as the "panacea" for business problems. But, I suppose this is the "hook" to get people fired up. I guess it worked because I am now fired up!

    Here's what fires me up. Why would anyone criticize people for getting more education and trying to better themselves? Isn't most education theoretical? Why not criticize every person who has ever spent time reading a book or trying to learn anything in a classroom? I worked for 10 years before getting an executive MBA, so this probably helped to frame what I learned. In my executive program, I can honestly say that >90% of what we covered was very practical, applicable, and realistic. I see my executive MBA as one of the best investments of my time and money that I have ever made. And, I am a better business person because of it.

    However, it is not the MBA that makes or breaks a good business leader. It is attitude, people skills, an unquenchable thirst for reinventing continuosly, vision, and a desire for growing one's organization and self every single day.

    So, let's be MORE supportive of people who want to learn and grow. If a new grad has unrealistic expectations or a big ego, then we need to help that person as an individual understand reality. We need to manage individuals vs. generalizing about all people who have similar characterisitcs (eg., obtained an MBA).

    It doesn't take an MBA to see that this is a better way of thinking and managing people and leads to more accountability for everyone.

  • armorbearer01/02/08 Report as spam
    53

    The Truth

    I think an MBA is most valuable when combined with practical business experience. Hard and soft skills are both necessary to be a great leader, one who both managers and non-managers admire and will follow. A lot has to be said for business theory as well as for understanding what the numbers mean in financial statements. However, today's hiring managers at large prestigious firms are more concerned about hiring people with inside connections than people with grit, experience, and know-how. Thank God, opportunities exists to work with small and medium sized entrepreneurs who value experts who can help them take their businesses light years ahead of where they would be without the additional help.

  • jugel0101/03/08 Report as spam
    54

    Its the knowledge gained that counts

    I had my first degree in Geography and Regional Planning but having found myself working in the business world, I decided to do a MBA. It opened my eyes to a new skills and knowledge which would have taken years for me to understand. I can grasps and analyse business situation more easily than I did a year ago. My boss who happens to be a college dropout but with over twenty years business experience seeks my opinion on issues. The benefits of MBA programme cannot be overemphasised and I sincerely believe that a college dropout who is doing very well in business would do even better if he had an MBA.

  • JD_Ark101/17/08 Report as spam
    55

    RE: What Executives Really Think of MBAs

    I've heard it summed up this way -

    There are those that go to school to run businesses and do what they're told, and there are those that run head on into life to own businesses that in turn tell others how to do it - which hire those that go to school.

    You either choose to jump in the fire and learn to be quick on your feet through experience, or be one that needs to learn how to stand in the fire at the direction of those who jumped in first.

    Entreprenuers have the courage that education cannot teach.

  • SustainableCPA01/18/08 Report as spam
    56

    Sustainability

    I'm working on an MBA in Sustainable Business from Bainbridge Graduate Institute (www.bgiedu.org) and feel like I've made a wise investment.

    What I bring to the table are a bag of tools and skills to help organizations find a competitive advantage in the 21st century business environment. The old ways of doing business are changing rapidly. I am pleased with that my MBA program is teaching me how to surf the chaos.

  • GregJensen02/22/08 Report as spam
    57

    Experience more Experience and then the MBA

    I agree, in July I will graduate from a great MBA program here in the South called The Else School of Management - Millsaps College. I brought to the table a varied career a wealth of knowledge from various positions and a previous masters in HR. I now believe that I have a better set of tools to bring to the management and administration table of any corporation. I understand people and how a business works. I can hire the right people for the right job, I can train people to do a better job and I can look out over the horizon and plan strategic paths that keep my new employers ahead of the curve. If I can do all this because I chose to gain an MBA and couple it with pre-existing knowledge, then who really made the better decision? The MBA, to be sure is not a degree that should be given to anyone, nor should a position at the top of an organization be given to anyone just because they went to an upper level B-School.

    Experience is the key.

  • commentator8803/26/08 Report as spam
    58

    If I were hiring... MBA comes 2nd to EXPERIENCE

    Nothing can replace experience... not even a prestige MBA. No one can
    simulate decision making at a high pressure environment... Bear Sterns
    executives can't, or they won't have let the news of $2 a share leak to the
    public.

    MBA is a finishing program. A good program doesn't really teach you
    academics, it should be teaching you office politics, thinking on your feet,
    getting you to know other CEOs, executives, how they think...

    At the end of the day, how you respond to a crisis speaks louder than any
    MBA, therefore it should be there to complement your experience not
    compliment your experience.

  • TolaSimple03/28/08 Report as spam
    59

    RE: What Executives Really Think of MBAs

    MBA is really good but practices are best judges of the classroom knowledge. People have MBA for the name sake but may not be better-off in practice.

  • TolaSimple03/28/08 Report as spam
    60

    RE: What Executives Really Think of MBAs

    MBA is really good but practices are best judges of the classroom knowledge. People have MBA for the name sake but may not be better-off in practice.

    Azeez A. Sikiru

  • jcalire06/12/08 Report as spam
    61

    RE: What Executives Really Think of MBAs

    These days, MBAs are so accelerated that perhaps the quality is lost. Furthemore, while pursuing MBAs, there has not been any attempt made to incorporate any industrial training. Add this to a MBA, it will be worthwhile an investment, because then no one can say that you don't have the hands-on experience. And of course, it cannot and should not be a month or 3 months kind of training. To gain any valuable experience, a year or more is required and there must be strict guidelines given to the employers to fulfil the required training to ensure that they do not abuse the trainee.

    Joanna

  • cyberpundit08/26/08 Report as spam
    62

    RE: What Executives Really Think of MBAs

    It's not about the team. It's also not an ROI in 3 years. It's about what the MBA gets you 10 years down the line.

    IMHO, it is only worthwhile if one gets an MBA from a top institute for their geography:

    1. Top 25 from US, rest is a waste of time

    2. The top 7 from Europe

    3. The top 3 from Canada for Canada

    4. A few schools from Australia/Hong Kong/Singapore/India for Asia

    That's it. If you're going to anything else, something not a brand in the region where one wishes to work, then it's a waste of time and money.

What do you think?
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