Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

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  ianrhyspalmer08/14/08 Report as spam
  1

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Perhaps qualified...a TRADITIONAL marketing background may be dead on the web, but the same principles still apply - just in condensed time frames now: be inquisitive and put yourself in others' shoes, have objectives and goals, have processes in place to measure, take inputs/cues from customers and other key internal/external constituents, determine what to promote when based on forecasts, push to execute, then measure and refine, and go learn and make more mistakes to be more a more intelligent MARKETER.

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  JoshReeve08/14/08 Report as spam
  2

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Really Stibel? that is fantastic! so you are proposing that we 'The people of the Online World' just go out and make stuff, throw out our messages and see what happens. A narrow sighted approach to marketing in ALL forms would suggest that you 'just do it'.
  
  But what of the financial controllers, the purse holders, and the most important people - your stakeholders; what are they going to think about your credibility as a professional when you throw out potentially half baked marketing communciations online?
  
  Yes I agree that the online world has sped up the process of direct communications, and yes you can produce faster and deliver faster than ever before, however, this still doesn't support the abolishment of an entire industry of business professionals who are experts in their subject matter.
  
  Jeff Stibel should know fully well that the most efficient way of communicating to a target audience is to understand the psychology and personal traits of the target and the commonalities between your company/offering and themselves.
  
  Take this away and you will have a software programmer, not an online marketer.

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  DanAuito08/14/08 Report as spam
  3

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Good copy-writing will never go out of style, but when considering online marketing there are multitudes of factors that additionally come into play.
  
  Having a programming background and right brained creative flair aren't usually found in the same brain! LOL
  
  Hence, teams are more likely to be successful in today's technology driven, choice economy.
  
  Seth Godin in his book "The Big Red Fez" eludes to todays website as one big Pachinko machine where the customer is the ball and you start offering different options down the line from the top of your homepage, looking for the funnel that locks the potential prospect into a buying proposition as they surf.
  
  Great thought provoking article, keep up the good work!
  
  Dan Auito
  http://www.CitrusCountyClassifieds.com :~)

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  nexttgen08/14/08 Report as spam
  4

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Overall, it is a question of adaptation...that's all we're talking about here. I think it is a hasty generalization to assume that there could ever be an "end" marketing professionals. The only end in sight are for those who cannot adapt to the changing environment. There will always be that creative need in any campaign that cannot be achieved by algorithms and binary code, (whatever those are).

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  brian@...08/14/08 Report as spam
  5

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Moving in condensed time frames and analyzing what works in real time is making disciplined marketing based on some experience a requirement. Not the domain of your web guy or SEO guru.

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  pritchdl@...08/14/08 Report as spam
  6

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  First of all, marketing is not simply advertising. Advertising is only a small component of what one learns as a marketing manager or marketing specialist. A marketing background teaches a person to think about the target segment (and it's profitability and attractiveness), the sales channel through which the target segment will be contacted and sold, the pricing and positioning relative to the competition for the target segment, the buying process of the target segment, the cost of the value proposition, the capability of the company to deliver on the message and brand promise, the list goes on and on...a marketing background does not teach a person how to perfect copy-writing and advertising. My suggestion is that you clarify your blog by narrowing the focus to a "background in print advertising" if you want to make a viable case. Even then, an advertising person must understand everything I talked about. What am I missing here?

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  michael.campbell@...08/14/08 Report as spam
  7

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Two items missing in Stibel's diatribe are consumers and profit and as a marketer I have always listened to these. That's what a true marketing background teaches you and despite his passion for the web it is not always the most cost effective way to "make profit from satisfying consumers wants" which is the definition of traditional marketing and long may it continue

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  tanyae08/14/08 Report as spam
  8

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  A solid marketing background - so solid that its principles have become instinctive - is even more necessary today. We have less time to come up with interesting copy and click-grabbing graphics, so creativity coupled with that instinctive marketing understanding is crucial. Added to that is the complexity of understanding the technology and its possibilities - so I heartily agree with the comments here that it takes a team, a collaborative effort between right- and left-brain thinkers. My programmer is often puzzled by my requests when I give the initial direction, but when he sees the end product and gets what I'm trying to accomplish creatively, he brings it to the next level technologically. I think it forges a new and exciting dynamic. Let's face it...nothing gets more bad press quicker than a poorly rendered web campaign!

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  theCandyStore08/14/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Hmmmm...without marketers where would the web be today, and email marketing, and SMS, text, mobile? It takes the creative mind of a marketer to not only do what works, but improve on it and constantly adapt. Software and technologies make this easier, but it still must be done. This Marketer is not ready for a pink slip. Should I get one, it will be marketing prowess that will propel me, my company, and my clients further.

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  brian@...08/14/08 Report as spam
  10

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  "Throw spaghetti at the wall, sweep up what doesn't stick and call the rest artistic GENIUS!"
  
  Still 90% or more hit the floor, that's inefficient and is usually considered waste no matter if it's considered by the right of left brain.
  
  That said, if you can pull off explaining this strategy to investors and stakeholders you should be in advertising!

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  bob.bryan08/14/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Jeff Stibel's theory is based on the idea that companies and brands are willing to use a shotgun approach to marketing on the web. This may be true for smaller companies and brands that are still trying to find their way. However, as a marketer that has worked on some very large brands, I can say that no reasonable company would allow a billion dollar brand to take this approach. It would simply be too big of a risk to your business. While online marketing does allow for making changes on the fly, the program needs to start with a sound strategy that is built through collaboration between the designers, copy writers, account manager, and, yes, the marketer. The marketer will continue to be involved (and lead) the process, because someone must set the direction for the campaign and take responsibility for the success or failure. Even if Jeff Stibel does not buy my argument, unless a company runs and programs its own website, constant changes are prohibitively expensive to make through an online agency, a fact that would break Jeff's argument once again.

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  datadog08/14/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Jeff, you lovable idiot! The web is all about content now- the message. The technology doesn't matter. It's going to take someone to craft the strategy and the message. Copywriting and a few powerful images to get the point across. Sure, old marketing guys like me will fade away but new people will develop content that connects. Reading your comment was like talking to some of my clients!

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  JV@...08/14/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  How refreshing it is to see Harvard Business give space to Mr Stibel who is clearly too intelligent, too busy or too focused on being an "entrepreneur and brain scientist" (whatever that is) to waste his time on something as mundane as gaining an understanding of marketing.
  
  Obviously professional marketers have been wasting our time developing an offering to match our target markets' wants and needs and presenting that offering in the most effective and efficient way.
  
  We should ALL just "throw everything ...... into the universe and see what works"
  
  Here's some food for thought, Mr Stibel - what do you think will happen to your "everything" when your messages get lost in the overwhelming clutter that already exists online? They just might miss your "everything" altogether or switch off your message in protest at your failure to communicate!
  
  And the lowly fruitfly actually comes into the world with some hardwired knowledge (nature) which is supplemented by learning (nurture)
  
  In closing, I have to thank Harvard Business and BNET for helping us realise that there are still some serious wa..ers out there
  
  JV from l'Attitude in Cairns

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  Manhydra08/14/08 Report as spam
  14

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  "... let the creative destruction algorithms create a model of survival of the fittest, where the best campaigns live to fight another day and the worst are killed."
  
  This is clearly what would be called a "marketing tactic," used to facilitate the objectives of an overall marketing strategy. I do admit, it is somewhat of a useful method, but can get more or less expensive down the road, and it's not anything that would be considered reliable in replacing what an overall marketing strategy needs.
  
  This would be a method one can use (if not already) to optimize multiple ad creatives within a campaign. The few ads that performed well (preferably generating the highest ROI) would remain in use while the remaining are pulled away.
  
  But is that it? Simply measure a trend, or a high response, and follow it? What triggered this? Where will it lead? When will it end (because it will, eventually)?
  
  "How do we know what campaign is best?" As marketer4engin puts it, "... the most efficient way of communicating to a target audience is to understand the psychology and personal traits of the target and the commonalities between your company/offering and themselves." Take this away and you will have not only a software programmer, but a software programmer analyzing metrics only to determine, "Ah, yes, it needs more codes!"

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  psd1941@...08/14/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  In the present story, which is with reference to Jeff Stibel???s writing on Internet Marketing, there are two crucial questions that need the answer from the scholars and other viewers.
  
  The # 1 question is indicted in the title itself, as ???Is Marketing Background Useless on the Web???? And the # 2 question lies at the end of the story ???Is successful advertising becoming more a product of writing great software than writing great ad copy????
  
  If we go through Stibel???s write up carefully, he has not at all discounted the marketing background in support of his views about internet marketing. He has just indicated about the very fast results on the internet marketing that represents both direct and indirect marketing as well.
  
  Even in Internet marketing, Marketing Background is the most essential element. All the IT personnel/Software Developers are often not marketing experts. They need proper spoon feeding from the buyer or the marketing expert of the software buying company. So, unless a Software developer or the user/buyer of the Software does not have any marketing background and he does not have any marketing strategy or the sales targets in sight, the software used for internet marketing can flop and become a costly liability for his business.
  
  Even in the case of use of Marketing Software, a great Ad copy is also essential to prove as Call for Action by the viewer of the Ad. As such it will be incorrect to suggest that successful advertising becoming more a product of writing great software than writing great ad copy. Without a great Ad copy, Software itself cannot be effective about Call for Action of the viewers.
  
  Marketing a very wide term and cannot be discussed in isolation leaving the marketing methods and sources. In fact Marketing Software and Ad copy are just the media for marketing for which marketing background is quite essential.

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  tesandori@...08/14/08 Report as spam
  16

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Marshall McLuhan said that the medium is the message. It's that simple.

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  Marketing VP08/15/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Is there any other culture which absorbs online content at the same rate as Generation Y / Millenials in the USA particularly? I doubt it. Whilst trying to attract my high net worth, older customers, I think I'll try and use some of my training rather than make it up as I go along...
  
  I'm relatively certain my major shareholders would prefer this approach too!

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  Jillmac24708/15/08 Report as spam
  18

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Mr. Stibel, even though a few people out there may have written you off as a loon, I am willling to bet that you wrote that mischievous piece with your tongue in your cheek. I think you merely wanted to tease the marketing warriors out there; to challenge us to defend our honour and what we know to be true. Thank you for provoking so many compelling responses. I thoroughly enjoyed reading them, and feel proud and secure that the marketing fraternity is alive, kicking and has a sustainable future!

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  robertboyar08/15/08 Report as spam
  19

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Well give the guy credit for stirring up an issue and getting his name out there.
  
  Of course it's a simplistic (maybe juvenile...) viewpoint - Heck if carried to its logical conclusion, why not just let computers generate a (virtually) unlimited range of marketing programs and put them all out on the web - allowing sophisticated software to marry the best permutations.
  
  For a svery mall venture/kitchen start up it might possibly make sense. For a major player I don't think so.
  
  Imagine P&G for example cross-promoting Secret deodorant with "Girls Gone Wild" - and randomly seeing if this would leverage its current Secret positioning claim loine "Because you are hot". Things like brand equity, message confusion, etc. are not to be "played" with.
  
  However across promotion with 'Girls Gone Wild" might work as a brand line extension for something called "Axis-Fem" - a sexy/sensual female version of the sensual young male deodorant. (think Calvin Klein's "obsession expansion across the sexes).
  
  Well, now we are getting in 'marketing" --- Stuff I get paid a good amount of money to practice ... Hey Jeff, give me a call - 203-246-6164...

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  robertboyar08/15/08 Report as spam
  20

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Well give the guy credit for stirring up an issue and getting his name out there.
  
  Of course it's a simplistic (maybe juvenile...) viewpoint - Heck if carried to its logical conclusion, why not just let computers generate a (virtually) unlimited range of marketing programs and put them all out on the web - allowing sophisticated software to marry the best permutations.
  
  For a very small venture/kitchen start up it might possibly make sense. For a major player I don't think so.
  
  Imagine P&G for example cross-promoting Secret deodorant with "Girls Gone Wild" - and randomly seeing if this would leverage its current Secret positioning claim line "Because you are hot". Things like brand equity, message confusion, etc. are not to be "played" with.
  
  However across promotion with 'Girls Gone Wild" might work as a brand line extension for something called "Axis-Fem" - a sexy/sensual female version of the sensual young male deodorant. (think Calvin Klein's "obsession expansion across the sexes).
  
  Well, now we are getting in 'marketing" --- Stuff I get paid a good amount of money to practice ... Hey Jeff, give me a call - 203-246-6164...

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  BtoB Marketer08/15/08 Report as spam
  21

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Like evolution of a fruit fly, Mr. Stibel's idea just does not hold water.
  
  Traditional marketing skills will be necessary in any environment. Namely, design, copy, analysis, strategy, development, and others. No medium replaces an established discipline. (Only Acedemia would replace a thriving, proven, and evidenced discipline.)
  
  Additionally, Mr. Stiebel's practice only works with very active sites. Low traffic sites still have to wait for responses.
  
  Sorry, this idea can be placed on the 'History' shelf.

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  Ixax08/15/08 Report as spam
  22

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  I agree to a great extent???fast feedback will shape our
  messages, our designs, and our offers. We are dancing
  with customers in a more sensitive medium.
  Responsiveness, as any good dance partner knows, is
  an important trait.
  
  However, even driving to Cleveland takes vision. You
  have to have the goal in mind so you can see if you are
  progressing. Random moves adjusted by feedback are
  a great approach for floor cleaning robots, not
  managing delicate moves in limited markets or for
  costly products or services.
  
  I will aim for brilliant leaps and clever strategies and
  pray that competitors do actually forget how to think.
  
  Monica Rix Paxson

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  robertboyar08/15/08 Report as spam
  23

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Well give the guy credit for stirring up an issue and getting his name out there.
  
  Of course it's a simplistic (maybe juvenile...) viewpoint - Heck if carried to its logical conclusion, why not just let computers generate a (virtually) unlimited range of marketing programs and put them all out on the web - allowing sophisticated software to marry the best permutations.
  
  For a very small venture/kitchen start up it might possibly make sense. For a major player I don't think so.
  
  Imagine P&G for example cross-promoting Secret deodorant with "Girls Gone Wild" - and randomly seeing if this would leverage its current Secret positioning claim line "Because you are hot". Things like brand equity, message confusion, etc. are not to be "played" with.
  
  Now, to stretch a bit, and play with an innovative marketing hat on... imagine how a cross promotion with 'Girls Gone Wild" might work for a brand line extension for the sensual young male deodorant "Axis" brand Imagine a line extension called "Axis-Fem" - a sexy/sensual female version. (think Calvin Klein's "obsession expansion across the sexes). Now "girls Gone Wild" might make some strategic sense.
  
  Well, now we are getting in 'marketing" --- Stuff I get paid a good amount of money to practice ... Hey Jeff, give me a call - 203-246-6164...

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  chris jablonski08/15/08 Report as spam
  24

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  You need marketing to help create the overall market strategy, which gives you the strategic outputs that can involve online marketing. What else would you base your campaign on?

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  seansilverthorne@...08/16/08 Report as spam
  25

  Great discussion -- thanks for all the comments

  Clearly a marketing background isn't useless on the Web. But what I think Jeff Stibel is arguing is that traditional ways of reaching customers will only go so far online. The medium offers new opportunities, such as instant feedback on campaigns, that should be exploited -- another great tool in the marketer's arsenal.
  
  Sean

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  abbie@...08/17/08 Report as spam
  26

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  I find it fascinating that so few in business and academia understand what marketing is and how it works. I suggest that enterpreneur and brain scientist, Jeff Stibel, get an education. Start here and work backwards to Ries & Trout:
  
  http://www.hbs.edu/news/releases/062906_levittobit.html

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  twotaul08/17/08 Report as spam
  27

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Is a background in training horses useless in training dogs? Marketing is a constantly evolving process. In some ways a marketing background might slow down anyone trying to adapt from one medium to another. At one time newspapers were the only ad choice available. When radio came along marketing had to find the strengths of that media, same with TV. Now we have the net. As far as I know there are still the "four P's" so use the strength of the web to put them out there.

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  White Shark08/18/08 Report as spam
  28

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  This article speaks to the issue of time. Now we need to move faster and try things quicker. Information moves quicker than at any time in history.So do ideas. If we are going to be first in the market than we have to forget long term planning. The book "Flip" talks about this very issue. Gone is long term planning. Create faster and test and measure every time.

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  4news.11x@...08/18/08 Report as spam
  29

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  I analyze marketing and advertising campaigns all of the time. From what I've seen, we still don't have enough qualified and talented marketers.

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  afcosys08/20/08 Report as spam
  30

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  No.

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  jljohansen08/20/08 Report as spam
  31

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  In response to Sean's comment, I agree that the speed of feedback should be considered another tool for marketers to use.
  
  But to extrapolate the idea of using this as a tool into the entire marketing process goes overboard. Taken to the extreme, if you aren't planning ahead before your marketing campaigns, the 'survival of the fittest' campaigns will only be the 'best' in comparison with what failed. It won't necessarily mean that they are actually Good.

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  F Irias02/13/09 Report as spam
  32

  RE: Is a Marketing Background Useless on the Web?

  Uh, no. Strong marketing skills are necessary to respond effectively to the instant feedback online campaigns provide. Throwing stuff up there is, well, like throwing up. No one really wants to see a bunch of stuff slung around.

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  Jan Sonya-Jones09/29/09 Report as spam
  33

  Jan Sonya-Jones

  I just read a copy of Stibel's new book, Wired for Thought, published by Harvard. Looks like Stibel reads this blog because there was an entire section devoted to this discussion (argument) and while he backpeddles a bit, he explains the value of traditional maketing and brand-building relative to new media. He basically splits marketing into economic (or drect marketing) and traditional marketing. Interesting book as a whole.