Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

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  scgriff@...09/04/08 Report as spam
  1

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  I am just trying to get a new job - period! I am light on the management experience, heavy on the technical experience. But being a newly minted MBA graduate, employers are looking for the experienced and not at the potentials. But then there are plenty of both out there looking as well!

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  eescobar09/04/08 Report as spam
  2

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  There are certain things that are true... but that baggage is called "experience"...
  
  Hiring very new fresh non-experienced kids .... is a more expensive price ... most when new generations has more expectations of doing some things, and they beleive that were HUGE things... and that's not true.. the price of big contributions from apprentizes is expensive when it is measured in a long term line curve.

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  cbaques09/04/08 Report as spam
  3

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  I disagree. The issue is certainly not whether the employee is experienced or not, the main questions HR hiring managers should be asking should be related to "Company Culture" and "personal values". What is referred to as "human psychology" and "bad habits" above, is nothing more than ... "would this person fit in with the way we do things here?"
  Hiring a fresh recruit and molding them to the company's culture is time-consuming and more often than not, expensive. This usually works better if the company can offer a career path for the new recruit. Otherwise, after being successfully trained, chances are the new recruit will no longer feel the job is challenging enough and may move on to a new position with another company if the company cannot offer them a promotion.

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  liew-tim-fook@...09/04/08 Report as spam
  4

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Experienced workers can start work straight away upon joining whereas fresh non-experienced staff require longer period of coaching and on-the-job training - the "learning curve" is expensive and the errors commited could be cost to the organisation.
  
  Fresh recruits could also bring in the own personal issues and give rise to so many problems to the office and co-workers as they do not know the code of ethic and the job expectations.

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  totefrosch09/04/08 Report as spam
  5

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  The problem with listening to professors with NO "REAL WORLD" experience is that they are making money from pseudo intellectual bull. My experience has shown me that older and more experienced people are more predictable. I have been burnt big time by this new hire thinking and it cost my company a lot of money sending them back to the USA and their mommy.

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  mmccomber09/04/08 Report as spam
  6

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  The example shown in the article about the experienced adjustor seems to me to be a failure of management to ensure the message about the mission got to the employee. He probably came from an environment that valued "nickeling and diming", that adjustor's manager failed to review things adequately, and they didn't get what they wanted, even though they had it already by hiring him. It irks me to think that people think they can hire somebody "experienced" and not provide the least bit of "orientation" and continuing guidance, much less any training. You may call those experiences baggage, I call it one more thing they'll know to avoid.

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  pgaluszka09/04/08 Report as spam
  7

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Gee,
  Let's get these kids in quick so we can brainwash them according to their Generation X, W or Z fashion or whatever. I'm sure the in-the-mode companies would love that. And while we're at it, let's give them less or no medical and retirement benefits. These kids are SOOO brilliant that they won't understand anyway and it will save a bundle of money.
  
  I love work ethics in the New Economy!
  
  Peter Galuszka

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  MBAjones09/04/08 Report as spam
  8

  Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  This is very interesting. While there are valid points on both sides of this issue. There are both corporate and human issues to be realized for the success of both the corporation and the newly hired. In these days and time corporation want every new hire to come into the org. with everything on the laundry list that is published as the job description, and also for the new hire to be flexible into the new culture. Well, from where I sit (I am unemployed) It is almost impossible to fill the requirements and at some point employers need to look at potential and investment in every employee. Retention is important, satisfaction is important, perceived value is important. Where is the interest and responsibility level of the company. People are more than tasks and duties!
  
  C'mon people, wouldn't you like to keep your intellectual capital inside your doors?

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  Rhody09/04/08 Report as spam
  9

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Being an experienced professional myself, I think it is important to appreciate the following:
  - If the hiring company is in the mode of transformation (not just continuous improvement), they should be seeking to employ experienced staff that can bring fresh new idea's & perspectives based upon their previous successful experiences.
  - On the other hand, if the hiring company has already established their core DNA, defined go to market strategy & they are in the position to effectively execute this, they can simply plug "correctly skilled" people in to contribute accordingly.
  
  The success of any employee (experienced or non-experienced), is ensuring they are correctly inducted based upon the standard processes & methodologies that the business has already established. Although, these will evolve, they are at least working from a firm consistent foundation. They will then clearly understand how they are being measured & thus, feel empowered/acknowledged for their contributions accordingly, which will result in overall satisfaction across the business and also their customers.

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  suzette_pasustento@...09/04/08 Report as spam
  10

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  In the end, it's the FIT that matters. Experienced or otherwise, the culture of the company will determine the tenure of an employee. If an inexperienced employee joins a company that values extensive training and has high treshold for failures, then she or he will definitely thrive in it. But if that company is in high gear and requires people to put on their roller skates, then experienced people will fit that environment more as it requires more judgment and other decision making skills learned, applied and crystalized throughout the years. So it's the value set of the company and the employee that should be taken into account during selection and recruitment process.

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  mctomioni@...09/04/08 Report as spam
  11

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  The right assessment techniques can help organisations selectexperienced candidates with the right fit for their organisations. Essentially, balancing technical with behavioral/leadership assessment is one sure way to achieve this.

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  lauraf09/04/08 Report as spam
  12

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  This newsletter reads more and more like an issue of News of the World or Australia's Daily Telegraph. In other words, it carries a lot of crap.
  
  Articles are one-sided blanket statements designed to provoke comment rather than inform.

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  eric.pederson@...09/04/08 Report as spam
  13

  Inexperienced workers have ... fewer ideas

  Not so funny. I had a conversation with my then boss, a VP, about other key people leading us astray because they did not have perspective and knowledge of alternate effective approaches from working for different companies or in different industries. The words were out my lips before I realized my (bright) boss had really only worked for this one company and knew only one approach to most everything. Like Plato and the cave.
  
  You might think that younger less experienced workers will have fresher ideas, but my experience has been that they often don't have sufficient background and react to what's at hand without an overall understanding of all the dynamics, potential approaches, and trade-offs -- stuff you can't help but pick up over 10, 20 or more years.
  
  If generating a shiny powerpoint in line with whatever the consensus is in the current business environment -- at least cost -- is the objective, the less experienced is going to be a better pick.
  
  They can be brilliant, and sometimes brilliant but cluelessly unsound, but they are much shinier; and happy to shrug their shoulders later because there was no way they could have known better.
  
  And if they have a young, inexperienced boss they'll happily sing Kumbaya together around the campfire of failure.
  
  Young is good, but there is much to be said for the older and wiser, if business results matter.

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  chiayewheng09/04/08 Report as spam
  14

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  It really depends on the nature of the Job or task. There are some which require young geeks, say in game design. Of course I assume that the younger generation are more into them than the older folks. Now when it comes to disciplined task (where a certain orderliness is required), generally I find the older folks come on easier. Generally the younger ones are less consistent.
  
  Management application cannot be learned from the schools, although the principles of management are taught. Knowing the principles of motivation, planning, organisation helps one to check out and fill in the gaps. It may take too long to learn from mistakes - here professors do help. But when it comes to when to use, adopt, adapt, and to stop all together, nothing can replace experience.

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  vrsarti09/04/08 Report as spam
  15

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  The issue isn't experienced versus young workers. Both experienced and inexperienced workers come with "baggage."
  
  In a 2005 study of more than 20,000 new hires, 48% of them failed in the first 18 months. They had technical competence, but failed because they refused to take coaching or had very low EQ (emotional quotient and understanding their emotions and the emotions of others)
  
  If hiring managers ask the right questions in the interview process they can identify those who will not take coaching. If they won't take coaching they won't change behaviors. If they won't change behaviors, they will fail.

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  AJRussell09/04/08 Report as spam
  16

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Hey,
  
  Maybe after you get some experience in the REAL world, decide to go back to school and further your education, and have to come back out to the REAL world, let's see were you stand if someone else says you have baggage.

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  subbu7109/04/08 Report as spam
  17

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  This is overtly exaggerated... You need a lot of time get the new guys going on the job... If you think they can be good for a job 6 months down the line, it definitely makes sense.. if you are looking to scout in talent for a job where your product line or customer is already breathing in on you, an experienced candidate can be your best choice... simply because he can be productive on day 1... Its upto HR and the supervisor as to how they should manage the baggage...

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  rstan251@...09/04/08 Reported as spam
  18

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Well, this isn't approach are going to take with a C-level executive or vice president position. You're going to want to hire someone who is already made the mistakes and learn the lessons that only come with experience. Experience only found in the real world. I am a consultant myself and have found that experienced consultants are valued for this very reason. Of course there are other things that can't be taught such as personality. Within certain positions personality is key and critical.

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  cdusberger09/04/08 Report as spam
  19

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  This is a one-sided argument. While some older workers MAY indeed carry baggage, youth has its own dark side including a sense of entitlement undermining a commitment to work. Additionally, in the 20- and 30-something generation, I see more kids who seem to be lost, unable to make their way the world than in previous generations. Overall I find that ???baggage??? relates to an employee who is a poor fit for the job whether the individual is inept or merely trained in a method incompatible with their current position. A bad fit, at whatever age, is a bad fit. In favor of experienced workers, I will say that positive skills and abilities, honed over several years in a given profession, become instinctive, allowing for faster, wiser, decisions made with greater clarity and confidence. Heck, look at the national political climate. You???ve got a man applying for a job for which he says he is the right fit and, at 72, claims he is the needed advocate of change. If you buy in to that, you certainly can???t agree with this article.

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  psd1941@...09/04/08 Report as spam
  20

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  The article, of course, is quite interesting but nothing is new or unknown to a talented HR professional. Of course their experience remains unpublished in most of the cases of which an enterprising writer takes advantage of. But the study still remains biased or full of lacunae due to professional inexperience of the study group in the line. In this case also the findings are only one sided aimed at the well established old organizations not taking in to account the experience of the newly established organizations/industry.
  
  However, the findings of the study can prove to be of some worth to those who are new in the HRM profession. But still, if they try to apply this theory in a newly set up organization they are surely destined to be doomed and get their career spoiled, as the theory will fail by 100% in a newly set up organization where only experienced personnel can do justice based on their past experience and where organizational culture has yet to establish.
  
  Any new organization tries to hire experienced managers who can run the show based on their experience earned earlier in a similar industry/ organization. For example when ???Bharti Telecom??? of India entered in to Telecom industry, it preferred to hire retired professionals of the Department of Telecom of the erstwhile monopolistic Department of Telecom of the Government of India and it flourished by leaps and bounds, as they all were equipped with the inside information of the Telecom business and customer behavior. But when ???Reliance Communications??? entered in to the Telecom fray, it preferred to lure even the serving professional of the Department of Telecom of the Government of India as well as the earlier established Mahanagar Telephone Nigam Ltd, a Public Sector Enterprise of the Department of Telecom of the Government of India. Reliance Communications also flourished by leaps and bounds with this policy of hiring experienced professionals of the industry. Of course, the policy of the Reliance Telecom had been only the "Hire & Fire," as it retained the experienced Telecom professionals only till the period its own hired professionals from open market got proper experience to run the industry. Both the industries are now competing well with every other Telecom organizations, including the Government's Telecom Organizations. Both are flourishing day in and day out.
  
  Thus, the findings of the study cannot be applied universally and further needs to be investigated based on a fresh study with a big sample of the industries of various hues adequately representing old and newly set up organizations of each type of industry.

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  psd1941@...09/04/08 Report as spam
  21

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  This is in continuation and supplement to my previous talk at serial 20 ...
  
  However, as far as my experience says, for junior positions only freshers from the open market may be recruited, while for the senior positions the well established old organization should resort to filling in the posts by promotions from within the organization itself rather than bringing in from outside, as any professional, may be having even a huge experience of some other organization can be a only a fresher in the organization who depends mostly on the subordinates to learn the working and culture of the organization. In this case there is a danger of some disgruntled employees misleading him to create chaos.
  
  Thus by resorting to promotional policy within the organization can not only enhance employee satisfaction, but the organization itself gets the benefit of the experience of its own employee.

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  vish.sivaswamy09/04/08 Report as spam
  22

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  I think there is a conflict in selection of people to do jobs. While companies hire people to execute well and base the hiring onprevious experience of execution, employees look for a change because they are likely unhappy doing what they are doing. Little do they realize that the new employer is hiring for similar (if not identical) execution experience.
  
  Employers could benefit through the enthusiasm that a new recruit (experienced or otherwise) brings to the organization.
  
  That is a conflict that I often find.

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  appliedeye09/04/08 Report as spam
  23

  Doesnt apply for technical displines

  A technical displine may take years for a person to produce quality output independently which is not a less duration.
  
  Most times a fresh recruit will hop to another company for a little increase in salary or just fro the trill of it while experienced people might wnt to stic around a while because they realise short sti8nts in a comoany cna be bad mark on their resume.
  
  Just the maturity factir makes a big difference.
  
  So ye for tasks that does not take too much maturity or technical sense hiring a fresher recuirt is a good idea but its atricky choice.
  
  adi
  www.appliedeye.com

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  harkul09/05/08 Report as spam
  24

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  I am appalled. Do you really have to ask? For
  a professor to do this,(just more income) it is
  understandable, but for professionals to ponder
  over this issue, is just troublesome.

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  harkul09/05/08 Report as spam
  25

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  But I need to add something here, that on this
  never ending journey to find cheaper costs,
  companies do hire all kinds of people, wrong
  people, of all ages and experience level, with
  only one thing in mind, less costs. Frankly,
  when you talk to these folks, they are all for
  this or that, they know all right words, but
  when it comes to hiring, cheap is name of the
  game. How stupid is that. Naturally, one does
  not want to pay more than a fair share, but
  hiring somebody just on the cheap, is just
  downright idiotic. Still today, experience is
  the shortest way to success, in most cases.

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  Had Enough09/05/08 Report as spam
  26

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  I have to take the principle that we 'experienced' candidates bring problems to new jobs with a pinch of salt.
  
  What chance does a new Millenial or Gen Xer have over a 20yr industry 'experienced' individual? Please factor in the networking, the problem solving effectiveness and strategic values an experienced vet brings to the party. How does a milleniel stack up against this?
  
  Als please factor in the newbies failure costs too. And this is where an experienced veteran outweighs a newbie - the failure rate is lower and less costly. Some adjustments to bad habits does need to occur but how did the authors cost out the 'nikel & diming' example? I guess it was just that - nikels and dimes.
  
  
  All in all another 'alarmist' wanting to raise a profile by scaremongering.

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  stuart.fawcett@...09/05/08 Report as spam
  27

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  What kind of company would hire a senior employee without taking the time to understand the business the candidate was comming from, understanding the reasons fot them leaving that company, and then failing to breif the candidate on the company stragegy at both the interviews and at probation review meetings? Such a company has inbuilt HR baggage that it might do better to address first.
  Stuart.

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  simon.greener@...09/05/08 Report as spam
  28

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  It seems to me tha those doing the interviewing, assessing and hiring need to spend more time understanding the applicants and less time blaming others and stereotyping. True inexperience often allows the new resource to be shaped as required BUT experience is priceless if you can find it with the right variables you need. I trust my instinct when interviewing - it's usually correct - while at the same time making a justifiable and recordable assesment to refer to and use for comparison later. HR, in my experience, are notoriously poor at the insitinct thing - it's trained out of them by trying to make it a science but don't forget the hocus pocus part. Just get a good wizard first.

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  guestlinks@...09/05/08 Report as spam
  29

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  I agree with you that hiring new "potential" recruits are cheaper than hiring an "experienced" ones provided that the company has its OWN EFFECTIVE Training programs that identifies them from their competitions.
  
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  k.smirnov09/05/08 Report as spam
  30

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  I have experienced this myself. I am a partner in a small IT consulting company. A year ago we have hired a very bariny man in his mid 50's. On the bright side: he is a very detail-oriented man, good at math (what we need) and very smart in general. What we do (a consulting work in IT disaster recovery, business continuity, etc.) is new to him. One would expect him to learn.
  
  Here comes the dark side.
  1) The "halo effect" of his previous experience makes him extremely reluctant to learn the new stuff from our area of expertise. On the surface he agrees to read books and take trainings. However instead of using the rational bit of every training, other's work or book, he starts criticizing it.
  2) Like king Midas he tranfsorms (or at least tries to) everything he touches that it resembles what he did at the previous job (gold). Which naturally meets resistance of the rest of the team.
  3) He reacts very sharply to every bit of criticism, every time referring to his past experience. It gets really paranoid at times.
  
  Provided that we are the team of people aged below 40 and can boast our own achievements (literally a self-made company) we get loggerheads sometimes.
  
  As a partner I have to admit that I very well might fire this guy, despite his excellent analytical skills and high quality of his deliverables.
  
  Several times it occured to me that if I hired someone less expreienced but more agreeable, I very well might have trained this person to give him/her all the knowledge to perform the job. At least it is way more pleasurable than a constant criticism and confrontation from the employee's side.
  
  Konstantin Smirnov,
  Moscow, Russia
  
  PS: Some good thought on it: "Weird Ideas That Work: 11 1/2 Practices for Promoting, Managing, and Sustaining Innovation" by Robert I. Sutton

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  ldmack309/05/08 Report as spam
  31

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  It was not so long ago another "study" noted that experienced canidates were the better choice. Specifically those that worked at more than company over the years, thus bringing a more open mind.
  Many companies believe they can reduce employment costs by having one quailified employee and many new ones....bad idea. Improving their interviewing process will help to weed out unwanted tendencies. Personally, although not politically correct, I prefer younger employees with experience as they tend to be more open minded that older (myself included) workers..but the ebottom line is, experience counts.

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  jcouturier728209/05/08 Report as spam
  32

  RE: Experience?

  I see people stating that if you get an experienced person they can be productive the first day. This is really only true if they have experience in your company. Has anyone started a new job with their first day being 100% productive? No; you have to get to know your team, the culture, and what is truly expected of you.
  
  I have had more training issues with the "experienced" talent than the "inexperienced" recruits. It has been said that the younger generation (which would include myself at 26) has a sense of entitlement to things that people have had to work for in the past. I have found in my limited management experience (approx 5 years) that you get more of that with an experienced hire. They tend to feel as if they have already paid their dues and should come in at the same level they held prior, what is lost is that there are employees who have shown their loyalty to the company already and the new yet experienced hire has not. No matter the position held, that new hire will need to pay their dues again.
  
  It is amusing to me to hear people speak of my generation as spoiled, entitled, lazy, etc. I see so much more of that from the people who don't want to help an eager new (old or young)recruit learn. Some of our hardest working employees are the younger recruits as we feel we need to prove our self and abilities in order to earn the loyalty of our company.
  
  I now do the hiring for my department and thankfully do not have to rely on HR to send me new hires who don't want to report to someone young enough to be their child or think they already have all of the answers because they have 10, 20, 30 years of experience. I can interview my own prospects, experienced or not, and the most important qualities I look for: Intelligence (including but not limited to common sense), Ethical Behavior, and a true willingness to work hard and learn everything they can about our products and company. I have found that if you possess those qualities the experience, or lack thereof, doesn't not seem to matter as much.

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  Rick_S109/05/08 Report as spam
  33

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Real world experience counts. How does one count the problems avoided by experience? Many hardware and software companies keep costs down by hiring new grads. They tend to come up with ideas that sound good or look good on paper, but have major problems in the real world. Look at the Microsoft Registry, or the old MS Windows default of setting ever computer to a slower speed (non-network) or the new default of indexing everything on a hard drive and slowing the computer down. Intel and AMD and other companies have their own examples.
  
  This is the real world and there are no perfect answers. There are no perfect people, either. Everyone has issues or habits or whatever to deal with. I will bet though that there are ten examples of problems created by people promoted over their current level of performance for every one problem created by an experienced person.

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  CorinneElletson09/05/08 Report as spam
  34

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  In our industry (web development and
  marketing) we have actually found that the
  inexperienced persons fresh out of college have
  outrageously high starting salary expectations,
  a tendency to bounce from one job to another, a
  lack of company loyalty, and a strong
  unwarranted sense of entitlement. The baggage
  of experienced workers can actually be a good
  thing, bringing new ideas and different points
  of view to the table. Yes, there may be
  conflict, but you can get that with old or new.
  Unless you operate a call-center, I think
  experience should be high on the hiring
  consideration list.

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  merrilld@...09/05/08 Report as spam
  35

  Proofreading at BNET

  The link to the paper confuses "effect" with "affect." Is this a new idea about spelling, or merely a lack of experience?

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  commentator8809/05/08 Report as spam
  36

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  All depends. Some jobs lend itself to fresh out of
  school new hires. Others don't.
  
  Would you hire a 21 year old with no baggage to
  manage the CEO / CFO office? The experienced
  CEO/CFO brings along lots of baggage, at least 15-20
  years worth from several jobs !!! Is that a negative?
  Can you train the 21 year old to do the job of the
  CFO/CEO?
  
  On the other hand, for customer service (phone sales)
  staffs, inexperience training is simple and you can
  mould them into the type of customer service
  personnel that fits the company culture.
  
  Just some extreme thoughts

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  susan_alden@...09/05/08 Report as spam
  37

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  What do you want to bet this article was written by
  someone under 40?

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  roaklief09/05/08 Report as spam
  38

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  One of my favorite quotes from Alvin Toffler is
  "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be
  those who cannot read and write, but those
  who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
  
  The issue is not "baggage" but can the new employee..new or old...adapt.

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  Ramon Rojas09/05/08 Report as spam
  39

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Certainly, having a new job is motivating to begin. I believe that hiring experience, or hiring new young talent is in the balance. But, I can rely more on experience rather than new young talent, who also bring "new" baggage with them. It depends on the company, if a company likes traditional customer service, for example, new young talent is not going to bring that forward. They may bring something learned from a book, perhaps. BUT...I further believe that with "effective communication" there is nothing that cannot be solved. Thanks.

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  raptor12309/05/08 Report as spam
  40

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  I feel the age issue is totally irrelevant. It is about attitude to work and being prepared to learn new skills. Some people have difficulty in analysing their requirements for the new job and some may be arrogant enough to feel their past experience is enough to see them through.
  
  I have seen older staff settle in very well with a positve attitude to learning new skills and being self aware. I have also seen younger staff who are very enthusiastic but lack the knowledge base to make a positive contribution.
  
  I do my best best to understand the individuals attitude to work and learning and would place this above youth or experience.
  
  Round pegs & square holes!

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  john.shepherd09/05/08 Report as spam
  41

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  This has some truth in it, but really depends heavily on the industry and the type of work. Certain areas of work you would want to hire for experience. The degree to which this is true also depends the age and flexibility of the company doing the hiring. Alvin Toffler above is 100% correct as well!

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  pgrage@...09/05/08 Report as spam
  42

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Experience comes is several flavors. Young graduates may have exposure to new ideas, but it is the implementation of those ideas that brings wisdom. Consulting experience that provides exposure to multiple approaches to problem solving is extremely valuable (including experience with failure). Other measures of experience that result in the "not invented here" dogma can be counter-productive. Perhaps this is the focus of the study.

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  adman9509/05/08 Report as spam
  43

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  The biggest point missed by the researchers is that there is no greater probability the "fresh recruit" will fit into your companies "unique culture." Fresh recruits bring their own baggage including unrealistic expectations, naivite and sometimes outright arrogance that their ideas are better because they're "newer." Nevermind that we tried that idea before the new guy showed up.
  
  Oh, and thanks for giving the corporate ****** another excuse for downsizing.

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  Sstraus09/05/08 Report as spam
  44

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  As an "experienced" employee who has been through downsizing, restructuring, "buy-outs", competitive internal job postings, etc., I find this article/research biased and offensive. It is damaging to all those "experienced" hirees, looking for work, competing against the younger, "computer savvy" generation. Many of us have found that despite our degrees, in order to stay competitive in the job market, we need to constantly be upgrading our skills through continuing education (while paying for a mortgage, car, university/college for teens, etc). The experience we have is well earned. We have an understanding of people, and of how quickly life changes, and we are prepared to change with it. I am offended that this research focuses on the "bad habit" persona. We all bring life experiences, and attitudes to the workplace. It is up to the individual how he/she presents these attitudes.
  
  An intelligent employer will conduct an interview with a prospective employee using appropriate tools to discover whether or not the interviewee will be a good "fit" for the company. Sometimes, lack of experience will be compensated for by a person showing eagerness to learn, with enthusiasm for the position. If you can show your potential employer that you are worth the risk, the requirement for experience may be reconsidered. An intelligent hiree will be aware of personal strengths; weaknesses; and other attributes that can be applied to a position being applied for. Additionally, not all experience is gained in the workplace. There are many agencies that depend on volunteers in order to function. Do not underestimate this valuable avenue. Find one that suits your goals, and passions. By dedicating some of your time, effort and skills to an organization, you will gain invaluable insight and talents that be as valuable as "formal, on the job" experience. Keep in mind that many volunteer positions lead into employment.
  
  In the meantime, I reiterate - do not group us all into this "bad habit" persona. We have persevered despite setbacks; we have learned how to "co-exist" in the workplace with many different personality types; we have learned more about ourselves through the process; we have learned how to reasses and change. Just as important, we have learned what it takes to be "employable".

•  
  IMLaughlin09/05/08 Report as spam
  45

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  I love academia. They're so ... irrelevant. That's why they're in academia.
  
  When hiring, consider what the "whole" prospect can bring to the organization and the mission. A proven, successful manager brings a whole package of knowledge, ideas and people skills through the door. If this didn't happen, then HR didn't select the right candidate.
  
  Hiring fresh, entry level talent can be rewarding. However, "manager" carries great responsiblities and demands proven skills and experience.

•  
  fearsmag09/05/08 Report as spam
  46

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  This story is load of rubbish. let me tell what hiring
  newbies to replace higher paid more experinced
  workers leads to: The endless repetition of costly
  mistakes that you had previous ironed out had seen no
  more of when the Experienced workers were on the
  case.
  
  This is just another pile of garbage excuse for bean
  counters to push the bottom line --but ultimately it
  always cost the company far more in the long run.
  
  More idiot thinking in corporate america.

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  null09/05/08 Report as spam
  47

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Like most companies we have a mix of experienced and inexperienced employees and I have seen both willing and not willing to learn, both willing and not willing to accept the culture. This issue is not experience vs non experience but does the person fit the culture.

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  Sstraus09/05/08 Report as spam
  48

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  This article and research is damaging to everyone in it's ignorance.

•  
  LWeller209/05/08 Report as spam
  49

  Who was really being studied?

  As someone who has studied social science and science, I have two commetns:
  
  The main issue and problem with this study is that supervisors were asked their opinion of new employees (experienced vs. not experienced). Since this value isn't a constant, the study itself was in danger of reflecting the psychology of supervisors more than that of the employees.
  
  Also, as already mentioned, what one company calls baggage may actually be the better way of doing business. This value would be mixed in the study without any way to tell which cultural baggage is actually better for the company (and, ironically, that the company itself may be resisting).

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  mkwasny@...09/05/08 Report as spam
  50

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  These professors need training in root cause analysis. The root cause of the original problem was an inadequate and flawed interview process. The corrective acton should be to improve the interview process, possible develope a question sheet for new canadates and try to access how well they will fit in to your system.

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  robertchisholm09/05/08 Report as spam
  51

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  In the IT industry here in Ottawa, from what I've seen, the emphasis when hiring new people is on having experience that exactly meets a long and not necessarily realistic "laundry list" of requirements for the position. Anyone not meeting even one of the requirements on the list is, in effect, dismissed automatically as not being able to read and write. The job market here, and recruiting practices, are unbelievably inefficient and utterly dysfunctional but nobody wants to deal with the problem.
  
  The problem is rooted in woefully incomplete and wrongly-analyzed unemployment statistics but this in itself would require an extended discussion.
  
  Robert T. Chisholm

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  mnzx@...09/05/08 Report as spam
  52

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  The execs at the insurance company clearly didn't understand the basic concept of "fit." It's pretty smug to think that the best way to go would be to use a cookie cutter approach to hiring and then force-fitting the new hire into the job.
  
  The biggest risk in hiring experienced workers is in finding ones that aren't jaded or pissed off about what they've had to deal with in former or current employers.

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  V34309/06/08 Report as spam
  53

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Well be sure to note the authors name and any companies worked for in the past 5 years..
  
  And Run
  
  All good information when it comes to defending your firm from an age discrimination suit.
  
  One can read the deposition transcripts now..
  
  
  "I understand you prefer to mold young persons to suit your business needs rather than hire more qualified generally older employees."
  
  Yes
  
  Is that because they command higher salaries?
  
  No
  
  Is that because they may represent a greater burden from potential insurance costs?
  
  No
  
  Does your insurer suggest you not hire older employees?
  
  No
  
  So you do not hire them because they are more difficult to manage?
  
  No
  
  Why is it you avoid hiring more experienced employees who just happen to be older as a general rule.
  
  
  UH
  
  I have Grandparents and I love them..
  
  
  ....................
  
  
  All placed before a jury comprised primarily of "Older" Americans stuck on Jury duty getting $12 a day.
  
  Brilliant!!!
  
  
  Backside....Meet Mr Basket...
  
  
  W

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  RandyU09/06/08 Report as spam
  54

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  If any HR person is reading this study, and acting on it's recommendations (or any such study), the company most likely has some hiring 'system' in place. If their system is like many of the companies 'systems' I???ve seen, then it is culling out the best anyway, and you are left deciding between which type of mediocre employee to hire - young mediocrity or older, more experienced mediocrity.

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  neilldsouza09/06/08 Report as spam
  55

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  The author of this article has just highlighted "A Problem" with recruiting experienced staff and does not necessarily mean "The Problem". Also it does not even evaluate the type of experience for a specific job so it is mere generalization of a very small topic. While all of it may sound so true in real world the definition of experience comes with Time, Attitute and Knowledge and it is the mean of these three that will distinguish between 2 individuals while claiming they have experience. It is for this specific reason the HR would screen a candidate to make sure he/she fits for the desired role.

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  Kai Ahnig09/07/08 Report as spam
  56

  Willingness to work

  I have my own little consulting company. We deal in some sometimes unknown or politically incorrect technologies (i.e. doesn't look good on a resume)
  
  I have had successes and failures with individuals I thought wanted to work. Some wanted to work, some wanted to goof off.
  
  I have had successes and failures with (older) individuals who were senior. Most of them knew the material cold. Some of them had problems which could be cured over a heart-to-heart chat, some were incurable. I fired them asap.
  
  It mostly depends on the individual,

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  victorrajavel@...09/07/08 Report as spam
  57

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  In hiring employees to suit the needs of the organisation these days, recruiters need to have the knack to identify good salesmen from those whom are not. Some people claim to have years of experience in job being advertised thus demanding high salaries. Once in the job, their dismal performance leaves employers with less than what they bargained for.
  
  On the other hand fresh recruits may just be the solution but there is always a tradeoff! Experienced employees often know how to manage cutomers better than their green horn counteparts. This a proven fact in the Outsource/contact centre industry. So while we are discussing purely in terms of costs, let's not discount the fact that we are in business solely because we need to meet our customer needs. the time taken to train green horns and the impact they have on our customers during the period of incubation does not do a world of good to our costs when customers start to leave!
  
  Whilst it is imperative to keep costs down to further fuel growth and keep up with competitors, we should never allow this to affect our customers in any way. As far as old issues are concerned, at least it is far better than the new one not understanding any at all, to the extend, that customers feel we do not understand their issues at all!

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  moofa09/08/08 Report as spam
  58

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Yes obviously every company strive for experience employees, certainly it depends upon the company norms whether to use old issues or not as such even experienced employees can go for old issues in new jobs and according to my opinion its not fair what they are doing.
  
  california dui

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  jcmbc09/08/08 Report as spam
  59

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  VERY GOOD

•  
  stacyjo09/08/08 Report as spam
  60

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  The heart of the matter is fit and the willingness of a new employee (experienced or not) to do the job. I am currently an "older" worker and I know that my experience, willingness to go the extra mile and to keep an open mind on how to get things will greatly benefit my next employer. It's all in the attitude.

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  maus_6909/08/08 Report as spam
  61

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Like many things in life, there needs to be a balance between experienced and fresh hires. If all a team has are newbies, who will be there to teach lessons learned and valuable life lessons to the next crop of workers? On the other hand, if you only hire experienced people, then you risk a stagnant group that does not innovate. The best option is a mix of both ... with sufficient mentoring for the newbie, and a "buddy" system for the experienced new hire.

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  tampa_torch09/10/08 Report as spam
  62

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Even young, inexperienced workers can bring problems and baggage.
  
  
  I look for people who are experienced for key positions. Period. I can't afford, as a field office Director, to take a lot of chances.

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  tampa_torch09/10/08 Report as spam
  63

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  I agree. I need some of both. Experienced people to make sure we have success now. Younger people to be molded and raised in the agency and who are there to provide spark, a new perspective and form the core for the long-term.
  
  but I would never hire an inexperienced person for a key position, like one of my managers. No way.

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  magrob10/03/08 Report as spam
  64

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  The issues in the story as it's put forward here seem to
  be more with poor HR at hiring, and management on the
  job. New recruits can also bring "baggage" to the job. I'd
  opt for the experience over the "molding" idea any day.

•  
  susana 34210/09/08 Report as spam
  65

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  How can you base a whole study and make general statements by analyzing just one industry and one company? Evidently, Wharton and NYU are desperately trying to find jobs for their students! Very dissapointing...

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  mktgpharma10/15/08 Report as spam
  66

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  In the end, you will be measured (I hope)by your performance, not your past-performance or your potential succes. Moreover, do not forget that when you buy performance there is "baggage" included in the same package.

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  tramky11/06/08 Report as spam
  67

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  Well, the conclusion of this article is clearly nothing less than a rationale for age discrimination in hiring. And nothing more. Companies that like defending discrimination lawsuits against them will love this. I wish we could get a list of companies whose management buys this approach so smart people can avoid looking for employment with them.

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  johooo11/12/08 Report as spam
  68

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  rationalize ageism

•  
  Annatclick01/06/09 Report as spam
  69

  RE: Experienced Workers Bring Old Issues to New Jobs

  This article certainly gave me a great idea of what managers need to know today. They should know not to take poorly constructed research findings and apply them to their business or they might just find themselves in court. This is nothing but pure age discrimination - the esteemed Wharton author should try referring to the ADEA
  
  The ADEA protects workers from age discrimination in every phase of the employment relationship, including job advertisements, interviewing, hiring, compensation, promotion, discipline, job evaluations, demotion, training, job assignments, and termination. In a recent case, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the ADEA prohibits practices and policies that are seemingly neutral, but have a disproportionately negative impact on older workers (disparate impact), as well as those that explicitly treat older workers worse than younger workers (disparate treatment). (See Smith v. City of Jackson, Mississippi, 125 S.Ct. 1536 (2005).)
  
  Not only does the ADEA prohibit employers from discriminating against older workers in favor of those who are younger than 40, it also prohibits employers from discriminating among older workers. For example, an employer cannot hire a 43-year-old rather than a 53-year-old simply based on age.