Hybrid Buyers are Liars?

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  shaneshepherd04/08/08 Report as spam
  1

  Hybrids

  I bought a Honda Civic Hybrid precisely because it looks like a normal car. I support the idea that a hybrid engine is just another technological upgrade that should come standard in all cars, like a catalytic converter or fuel-injection system. So it's not fair to lump all hybrid buyers into the Prius group. The Honda Civic, Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, along with several others all are available as "normal-looking" hybrids. Also, 57% of Prius buyers think that the car makes a statement about them... let's contrast that to the percentage of Ford Mustang buyers or Hummer owners who would make the same statement. Much higher, I would guess. A lot of people buy cars for the image they project. Hybrid owners aren't so different in that regard.

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  rpwillia04/08/08 Report as spam
  2

  Hybrids are not cost effective

  Every study I have seen shows that buying a Prius or any other hybrid is just not cost effective. People here in Norther Virginia buy them because 1) They get to use the High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes all by themselves; 2) they are a nice tax credit from the government; 3) they think they are saving money on gas; and 4) they are making a statement they are so much better than you. If not for the government perks you would not see them on the road.
  
  In the marine environment diesel electric or gas turbines and electric are a very efficient way to drive a ship through the water. While the gas electric hybrids are a little more efficient they don't save you all that much and some pure gasoline cars actually do as well. There is also an annoying safety issue where the Prius drivers won't turn their headlights on at dawn and dusk or in the rain unless absolutely necessary to save their batteries (really a bear to see them on the road and avoid them).

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  trentjefferson04/09/08 Report as spam
  3

  Something is better than nothing at all!

  For years Detroit has ignored the formerly impending oil crisis. They've refused to be innovative and act on their own market research. They knew that the price of oil would increase as India and China began to adopt consumerism. They continued to sell trucks at get 12 mpg on the highway. Now that they've been scooped by Toyota and Honda they are crying foul. Who cares what the buyer's motivations are. They are acting with their wallets in an effort to preserve america's autonomy. Finally Detroit is paying attention. Its about time but perhaps too late.

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  abarna@...04/08/08 Report as spam
  4

  RE: Hybrid Buyers are Liars?

  Detroit automakers are liars! I heard a story on NPR that people wait months to get their hybrid SUVs due to "demand" and there is frequently a $5,000 mark up on the vehicles. You don't hear that in the commercials! A hybrid full-size truck that gets...wait for it...24 miles per gallon. Please. Detroit is wanting to ride the green wave just like everyone else. If they were serious about being green, they would produce more of these vehicles and make it easier for your average joe to drive a vehicle with a little better than average fuel economy.

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  dbelanger04/09/08 Report as spam
  5

  Hybrid Buyers

  It's no secret that hybrid vehicles are not cost effective. So, why would someone buy one if they can never make up the added cost in their pocketbook or in the green factor? Well--the Prius does make a statement. And it's human nature to want to make a statement. Isn't that why many of us started buying huge SUV's that we really don't need--to make a statement?
  At least those people that are buying the Prius have the added advantage of helping the environment in some way. So I say, if making the statement is the main reason--I'll accept it for the good it brings in the long run.
  Finally, as time goes by I think we'll see the hybrid prices come down. Just how soon--no idea.

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  barb@...04/09/08 Report as spam
  6

  Making a Difference

  We recently bought a Prius because our car died an untimely death. Our primary criteria for the purchase was that the new car had to get over 30 miles to the gallon, had to fit a family a 5 and had to be affordable. Currently there are only 3 cars that fit the criteria. It feels great to know that everyday we are reducing our carbon footprint. It wasn't about a making a statement for us, but making a difference.

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  GreenCPA04/10/08 Report as spam
  7

  ULEV

  My car died in 2003 and I bought an '03 Prius because it had the best gas mileage by far and the emissions were less than 10% of a regular vehicle. Gas prices were half what they are now. I never thought of or knew that my economy car was a status symbol. However, I thought I was a smart buyer making an ethical decision than and I've never regretted it.
  
  BTW, Toyota makes a great product. I have almost 85,000 miles and have never had a single maintenance problem. At 46 MPG, I LOVE IT and look forward to my next Prius some day.

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  ptiseo04/09/08 Report as spam
  8

  What's Wrong With Making A Statement?

  I think there's Detroit-stink on that study. The data may be correct, but I'd love to see the actual qeustions posed and the conclusions drawn.
  
  But, let's say people are saying that they are making a statement by buying a Prius. What statement are they trying to make? That's not mentioned.
  
  What if the statement is: "Hey, Detroit, where are cars that don't screw up the environment? Let me go buy a Prius instead."
  
  It's better than the statement a Hummer makes...

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  Julie O'Malley04/09/08 Report as spam
  9

  RE: Hybrid Buyers are Liars?

  Americans have always bought cars because they make a statement. It's just the statement that differs. Buick sedan? "Buy American, quality be damned." Hummer? "I'm rich, you're not." Minivan? "I've given up -- the kids win." Little Red sports car? "I may be 50 but look how sexy I still am." Accord or Camry? "I'm above making statements with my car. This is good, sensible transportation." [which is itself the statement]
  
  Sure, Prius owners are making a statement, but so what. They're no more liars than the rest of us.

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  Acrata04/09/08 Report as spam
  10

  RE: Hybrid Buyers are Liars?

  I don??t see how someone buying a prius to make a statement can be any more liar than someone buying a V8 AMG Merc for the same reason. If I have to choose, I??ll chose the former. Cheers.

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  Mcoker04/09/08 Report as spam
  11

  RE: Hybrid Buyers are Liars?

  the most important point to note is they bought the hybrid. No matter the personal objective i'm sure the environment's not complaining. Let's do the right thing even if for the wrong reasons.

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  Graphicsman04/09/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Hybrid Buyers are Liars?

  I'm proud that we have a society that views eco-friendly as high-status!

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  domar71204/10/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Hybrid Buyers are Liars?

  This article, as with many, make me want to ask: "Am I missing something here?" The rhetoric about people buying a Prius hybrid versus any other hybrid is not your judgment call or really any of your business. People buy vehicles (any type, model, color, etc.) for any number of reasons. So who really cares why people buy these vehicles, just as long as they do. Everyone needs a reliable means of transportation be it a Ford, Toyota, Honda or whatever. Let me let you in on a little secret--I prefer my Honda hybrid because...well, I have many reasons (besides the cost) but I love the smooth ride. Wholesome ethics? In buying a car? Wake up and smell the coffee--get real. The main reason we purchase hybrids is because we want the "green" back without the emissions. If the car makes us look and feel good, so what!!! Each vehicle we purchase should make us feel good. If society wants to call it a "status symbol" it is their words. What happend to the life blood of liberty, freedom of thought; our own knowledge of what's right? I just read an article that states, "Irrational behavior is rapidly being established as the norm in almost every area of human endeavor. There seem to be new customs, new rules, new anti-intellectual theories regularly foisted on us from every direction" and more negative thought. So, you say "hybrid buyers are liars?" Do you have facts (proof) to back that up or is this just another opinion society needs to ignore?

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  PaulGibson04/11/08 Report as spam
  14

  RE: Hybrid Buyers are Liars?

  In your editorial, you made an assumption that everyone accepts the fact that all GREEN movement ethics are "wholesome." While I myself may not question many of their actions to protect, respect and take care of the environment, I do have my doubts why some of these same people have no conscience when it comes to even more important issues, such as respecting human life before birth.
  
  To answer your question though, it is quite evident that if there is no will to protect the environment, but rather to create a status symbol, there can not be anything ethical about it for the same reason that the existence of hybrid cars is not ethical - cars, whether hybrid or not, emit gases that are harmful to the environment. So if you are basing your "love of the environment" as something of an ethical good, you should remind yourself that all harmful gases that harm the environment can not be ethical.

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  Marc45304/11/08 Report as spam
  15

  RE: Hybrid Buyers are Liars?

  We bought a hybrid for two reasons. The first was because of gas prices, the second was because of the HOV lanes. Here in northern Virginia hybirds are allowed to use the HOV lanes without having to have three people in the car. My job requires me to travel to DC at differnt times of the day, to different locations. And my wife often travels back home during the afternoon when its inconvienent to pick up passengers or other commuters. So the hybird has worked wonders for us, especially cutting time during our commute. In fact, I would say that our hybrid has paid for itself in the two years that we have had it. We have more than 74,000 miles on our Prius and have traveled all over the east coast in it without any problems. Whether a status symbol or green vehicle, its a great car. And we are going to buy a new when this one gives up the ghost.

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  jazz56804/11/08 Report as spam
  16

  US Car makers still don't get it !

  Ditto. American car makers still don't get it and keep producing cars that don't meet the need and requirements of drivers. I am afraid they might become the consumer electronic industry of the 21st century ! Sad, but it is a reality.

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  danogram04/13/08 Report as spam
  17

  RE: Hybrid Buyers are Liars?

  Who's Lying To Whom?
  
  Truly disturbing in all of this is ???size matters???.
  
  It should be no surprise that vanity sells. Merchants have understood this for as long as man has been trading. Certainly, the auto market has demonstrated from its earliest days that appealing to the emotional mindset of the customer was the most powerful motivator of sales. Witness such phenomena as the Thunderbird, Mustang, Corvette (and hundreds more), which were anything but efficient by any standard. But they were huge sellers and great profit centers for many years.
  
  If one speaks only of automobiles, the issue is rather harmless enough; if the customer is allowed to believe he is getting the value he seeks and the seller is getting the profit he seeks, where is the foul?
  
  The ecology equation, however, is much larger. While selling cars to the vanities of the consumer has been business in the billions, selling the need to radically change behavior planet-wide based on a perceived crises is business in the trillions of dollars. The implications are ominous.
  
  ???Scientists??? have been among the first victims. Those caught up in the fearsome specter of the imminent destruction of life as we know it trumpet this alarm. Early on, a great deal of money began to flow into research, and with it the paradox began; producing science to increase the concern generated more money for research. Science which seemed to diminish the concern had the opposite effect.
  
  The issue quickly vaulted to a geopolitical cause. Many countries now see this ???ecology vehicle??? as a means to exercise leverage not otherwise available to them.
  
  The ???certain sliminess??? you see in the Prius issue is but a sliver of a much, much deeper and more troubling world wide malady; the enormous pressures, both financial and political, to extract science meeting predefined templates has distorted the nature of this problem. The implication that drastic human behavior change is required, or could even have significant impact, is being sold in the same manner as the Prius; ignore fact and focus on the emotional appeal.

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  danogram04/13/08 Report as spam
  18

  RE: Hybrid Buyers are Liars?

  Who's Lying To Whom?
  
  Truly disturbing in all of this is size matters.
  
  It should be no surprise that vanity sells. Merchants have understood this for as long as man has been trading. Certainly, the auto market has demonstrated from its earliest days that appealing to the emotional mindset of the customer was the most powerful motivator of sales. Witness such phenomena as the Thunderbird, Mustang, Corvette (and hundreds more), which were anything but efficient by any standard. But they were huge sellers and great profit centers for many years.
  
  If one speaks only of automobiles, the issue is rather harmless enough; if the customer is allowed to believe he is getting the value he seeks and the seller is getting the profit he seeks, where is the foul?
  
  The ecology equation, however, is much larger. While selling cars to the vanities of the consumer has been business in the billions, selling the need to radically change behavior planet-wide based on a perceived crises is business in the trillions of dollars. The implications are ominous.
  
  Scientists have been among the first victims. Those caught up in the fearsome specter of the imminent destruction of life as we know it trumpet this alarm. Early on, a great deal of money began to flow into research, and with it the paradox began; producing science to increase the concern generated more money for research. Science which seemed to diminish the concern had the opposite effect.
  
  The issue quickly vaulted to a geopolitical cause. Many countries now see this ecology vehicle as a means to exercise leverage not otherwise available to them.
  
  The certain sliminess you see in the Prius issue is but a sliver of a much, much deeper and more troubling world wide malady; the enormous pressures, both financial and political, to extract science meeting predefined templates has distorted the nature of this problem. The implication that drastic human behavior change is required, or could even have significant impact, is being sold in the same manner as the Prius; ignore fact and focus on the emotional appeal.

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  doodlius05/21/08 Report as spam
  19

  Not liars, they just have multiple motives

  Full disclosure: I drive a hybrid.
  
  I am motivated by many things in my purchases - I like to get good value for my money, I like to have some style, and I want something that is practical for my needs. This isn't just about cars, it's about all the products I buy - computers, patio furniture, pants, everything.
  
  I'm not unique in this - quite the contrary, everybody I know is just like me in this regard. Everybody wants a quality, style, and value. It's what drives the competition in a capitalist system.
  
  My *previous* car was entirely about style - it was a little, fast, ubercool, convertible sports car. I loved that car, but I was getting really tired of the lack of value: I hated filling the tank because gas was getting "so expensive" (this was when gas was a steal at $2.50 a gallon - everything's relative). So I sold it to buy a hybrid - a Honda Insight. I bought that model for several reasons:
  
  1) I could drive it off the lot (the Prius has a 5 month waiting list)
  2) It got 55 MPG (which *rocks* when gas is at $4/gallon, by the way).
  3) It had a distinctive look.
  
  That last point is what people are going on and on about with this story. Yes, one of the things I wanted in a car was a something that would stand out. I could have bought a Civic hybrid at the same Honda dealership, but they looked so *blah* that I didn't even consider it. I didn't want to give up a flashy sports car just to drive a car that looked just like every other car on the road.
  
  Yes, style matters! Of course it does! If anybody made a convertible that got 50 MPG I'd be driving one right now!
  
  So to the auto industry I say this: It doesn't matter WHY people buy cars. People buy the cars they LIKE. If auto companies would make cars that look good AND get great mileage they's FLY OFF THE LOTS.
  
  Feed people's ego as well as their pocketbook. Do well by doing good. Can it really be that hard?

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  phil.reilly08/27/08 Report as spam
  20

  RE: Hybrid Buyers are Liars?

  Well that's all nice but maybe Hybrid makers are the liars - How many miles in a hybrid are really needed to make a difference to the eco input costs over the life cycle and disposal of the vehicle?
  
  They cost a lot to build because of the scale of input costs and the makers aren't even charged full rates yet.
  
  There are petrol and diesel vehicles with 20 years of functional life through the second hand (recycled) market and then significant efficient recovery from the scrap.
  
  Not sure the Prius stacks up with a the major refurbishments supposedly required over short periods of time, as reflected in their resale and service schedules
  
  I'm guessing you'd need to build 3 to 4 Prius's to get a twenty year life span, with each new vehicle sucking up big eco resources, - and petrol/diesel/gas technology is delivering efficiencies every year too.
  
  I afraid using more "efficient" vehicles has become a poor excuse for the real need to just drive less and I do understand that's not easy for many. The hybrid is a small part of the solution but too much dependency on it makes it part of the problem.