Siemens and the Ethics of Crime

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  wrightdorism04/03/08 Report as spam
  1

  Crime and Ethics

  I think there is a certain ethics among thieves. However, some people have better ethics than they realize. I think this is the reason why many wanted to go public with this scenario with Siemens. They felt guilty, but I guess the hush money was enough to quieten them down for a little while. I wonder if they would really squeal?

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  tmaganedisa04/03/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Siemens and the Ethics of Crime

  Competition is tight out there businesses will do anything to boost their profit so are consultants - Ethics or no Ethics to me ethics its just an exercise to show to the market how clean one can pretend to be but when the curtain falls organizations go all the way to win big businesses. If one is without a blame then let him/her cast the 1st stone.

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  SPelch04/03/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Siemens and the Ethics of Crime

  Honor among theives? well, maybe back in the days of swashbucklers and pirates...but in todays amoral society...what do you expect. Morality, in general, is the stuff of legend now. Try to explain to some snot nosed punk why something is "morally wrong" and they say..."ya...right" or "why should I care?" The "ME Society" we've created has very few or no morals or ethics anymore, and it's OUR faults. Bleeding heart liberals and "progressives" have taught that there are no consequences to poor behavior; "oh little Bobby whacked the old lady over the head and stole her purse because in school no one would pick him for the kick ball team" WHAT?? PUH-LEASE. Having ethics and morals requires one to care more about someone other than themselves... whether a thief, or a CEO, caring more about the greater good, than "how will this affect me" is a true rarity. Ethics among thieves? Ceo's? That's about as likely as chocolate flavored brussels sprouts.

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  unikrator04/03/08 Report as spam
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  Honor (Ethics) Among Thieves?

  My broad perspective is that when a group undertakes a crime, so long as each participant's interest is served, each will subscribe to a generally agreed "code of conduct" to preserve furthering the crime. That code is compromised or broken when an individual's guilt, fear, or more greed, far outweighs the the benefits of the crime. I can't speak for dumb criminals or for smart ones, but I speculate the outcome of a profit/gain assessment along the life of a crime can land you in the ballpark as to how strong ethics is in a criminal enterprise at any time. Dolor Saquing

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  snkhan04/03/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Siemens and the Ethics of Crime

  there is no ethics in crime, once you have started crime, how can you be ethical? however, there are silent rules which must be adhered to which the consultants were not

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  Emifernor04/03/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Siemens and the Ethics of Crime

  Do not call it ethics; Call it business rules. Of course there are business rules in Crime! Otherwise there would not have been so many "succesful" scams that still remain uncovered.

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  beejayblu04/03/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Siemens and the Ethics of Crime

  crime by7 it very definition contradicts ethics. if it is wrong, it aint right. But then if it be granted that all profession including 'crime'has its ethics. every criminal is eternally bound to act wrongly and deservedly, any punishment that comes their way

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  beejayblu04/03/08 Report as spam
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  Siemens has history

  Suffice to say, siemens deserve what she gets and if tommorrow, siemens set contract killers on the consultants, they equally deserve it. What irks me however, is stereotyping people and a nation. Siemens has an history in Nigeria. Go confirm that.

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  Lady Socrates04/03/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Siemens and the Ethics of Crime

  This is, of course, why we note that there is no honor among theives. However, referencing an ethical obligation to do unethical things is a contradiction. It doesn't make sense to claim that you *should* do what you *shouldn't* do. I think it may help to understand these as two separate crimes: 1)Siemens bribing contractors by paying them hush money and 2)the contractors blackmailing Siemens by later threatening to go public. Neither bribery nor blackmail is ethical.
  
  Thinking of it in this way also seems to help answer your quandry. It *does* seem that, somehow, in some way, once they've accepted the hush money, they have a moral obligation to keep quiet. Realizing that what they threatened was blackmail explains the feeling that what they threatened was wrong - without making it right for them to have participated in the original transaction for hush money. These are two separate crimes that are linked by common perpetrators, not a single crime in which Siemens was wrong for paying the hush money and the contractors were wrong for threatening to go public.
  
  Hope the analysis of an ethicist is helpful to sorting it out in your mind.
  
  DLM

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  latoons04/03/08 Report as spam
  10

  RE: Siemens and the Ethics of Crime

  Everything has rules and ethics; it's in our nature to structure our behavior. Even punks and nihalists have rules. They abide by the need to push off any and all behavior associated with corporate, sell-out, "the man". Doesn't that in it's self become a structure of patterned behavior? So, YES! Absolutely there is a structure and ethics to crime. We can all identify the pirate creed, the mafia creed (and we know the difference between the honorary punishment within Japanese crime families and Italian crime families). If Siemens has crossed the ethical business line and has been playing by street rules to gain business, Shame on them. But I agree with you that if you willingly play the game with Siemens and profited from it, they should not be bribing Siemens for pay-offs or public outing now. I think one thing that all organized groups agree upon is that it is never acceptable to play both sides of any group or situation against each other for individual profit. Yuck, I need a shower.

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  Utilytech04/03/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Siemens and the Ethics of Crime

  This is a perfect example of the "prisoner's dilemma". The prisoner's dilemma is when multiple people are caught by the police for a crime. If they all keep quiet, they may get away with the crime. But if one talks, they can make a better deal, and possibly get away without any significant punishment, while their co-conspirators will face harsher punishment. The consultants, while being unethical for skewing their reports to benefit Siemens and for accepting hush money, are setting themselves up for the best outcome before the hammer drops on all of them.
  
  I neither condone Siemens or the consultants, just recognizing the fact that there is no honor (or ethics) among thieves. Anyone who believes that there is honor or ethics with any criminal behavior is just deluding themselves. The best way to avoid the situation is to remember the trite saying "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime".

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  mikesamsa04/04/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Siemens and the Ethics of Crime

  How many of us work for an organization where "do as I say not as I do" is the work ethic?

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  Saza Suryawardani04/09/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Siemens and the Ethics of Crime

  I think I can understand how you feel. When consultants agree to accept a job with a company, they must keep the company secrets or whatever it is that the company classifies as confidential. Even if the contract does not say so. It is kind of ethic code for consultant to do so.