Alleged Plagiarist Guru Pleads His Case

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  PeakProficiency10/23/08 Report as spam
  1

  RE: Alleged Plagiarist Guru Pleads His Case

  Geoffry James, shame on you. I stumbled onto this exchange because I'm looking for advice on sales. I'm so disgusted that I have to comment.
  
  First, you ask Mr. Beck to apologize. He has done so, numberous times, and his explanation seems sincere and reasonable. Really, who hasn't unintentionally borrowed someone else's words, or collaborated with researchers who offer content that is impossible to check--and why would you check it? You assume that they're giving you orginal stuff if that's what they say they're giving you.
  
  Come on, you can't tell me that you have personally written every word and cited every idea that isn't totally your own in your hundreds of articles and seven books. Did you personally check every bit of content that was given to you or that you found on the Internet?
  
  It sounds to me like you are trying to discredit Beck in order to boost your own credibility/readership. Scandal sells, and this is, to me, a clear case of black propoganda where you are denigrating Beck in order to build yourself up.
  
  I guess I do have something to thank you for. I'm going to check out Mr. Beck's site and look into this quid pro quo process of selling.

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  cgreen2310/23/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Alleged Plagiarist Guru Pleads His Case

  Peak,
  
  Shame on you to Geoffrey? Puh-leeze. And you are now attacking his motives? Stop already.
  
  You may notice that Geoffrey, nor I, attacked Mr. Beck's motives. We stuck to facts.
  
  Mr. Beck's apology is, to my eyes, directionally sincere. I feel for the guy. And I'm glad to hear Geoffrey's testimonial about the quality.
  
  But let's also be clear; what he wrote--a second attempt, days after the first--is still rather halting; not quite what a real apology would look like.
  
  What difference does it make that he only sold a few copies, or that his website is old, or that he took fast action, or that others have had this happen too.
  
  The old lesson of Watergate still applies; the coverup is far worse than the crime.
  
  Mr. Beck could have stopped this on the first post, by writing in and saying, "I'm horrified. The first thing I'm going to do is go fix everything. Then I'm going to come back and acknowledge everything that happened, apologize to those it may have harmed; and then I'm going to tell you exactly what steps I'm going to take to make sure it never happens again."
  
  I plagiarized once--I "mis-remembered" a case as mine, when it wasn't and therefore used it without attribution. When the author confronted me, it took me about an hour of hard thinking to realize he was right.
  
  I was horrified. I apologized to the guy and to everyone else in the room. I wrote him a check for the five or six times I figured I had used it; I promised to pay him every time i used it in future, and I did, and still do.
  
  That's what accepting responsibility would look like. Mr. Beck is clearly moving in that direction, and has been beaten about the head pretty well by now--but it's entirely his own doing at the end of the day.
  
  And Peak, Geoffrey can speak for himself, but have I personally written every word of my two books and 50-some articles? Yes. Absolutely. Every word. Bar none.
  
  When I quote people, I cite them. When I take something from the internet, I hyperlink or cite it. If a researcher gives me material, I want links and citations. I always figured that's what you're supposed to do. And honestly, there really aren't any good excuses that I can think of for not doing it.
  
  I have no idea whatsoever where you get the data to back up the claim that Geoffrey's motives are "black" and aimed at discrediting Beck to build himself up. You cite no data, and frankly I find your claim not just non-credible, but incredible. Stick to the facts, we've got enough imputations about motives going in the presidential campaign without adding to them here.

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  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine10/23/08 Report as spam
  3

  RE: Alleged Plagiarist Guru Pleads His Case

  QUOTE fromPeakProficiency: Come on, you can't tell me that you have personally written every word and cited every idea that isn't totally your own in your hundreds of articles and seven books.
  
  Yes I can, and I will. Everything I've ever written that was derivative, I've cited the source.
  
  
  
  QUOTE fromPeakProficiency:
  It sounds to me like you are trying to discredit Beck in order to boost your own credibility/readership.
  
  If I wanted to build up readership, I'd publish nothing but "7 ways to close deals" posts, because those reliably generate the biggest page counts. This kind of stuff isn't a big draw; I consider it something of a public service to post it.
  
  
  
  The ironic thing about all of this is that I like Bob Beck's material -- the stuff that he really wrote (I hope!). I just can't understand why he'd hire somebody to write stuff that he didn't create and then pass it off as his own. That's dishonest, even if the material didn't actually belong to a third party.

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  BrandonH10/23/08 Report as spam
  4

  RE: Alleged Plagiarist Guru Pleads His Case

  I have no dog in this fight, but I would point everyone to this blog post by Dave Stein:
  
  http://davesteinsblog.wordpress.com/2008/09/05/hey-stop-plagiarizing-my-content/
  
  Then read this one:
  
  http://www.allbusiness.com/marketing-advertising/4290669-1.html
  
  When you read the first article, you see we're not just talking blog posts and whitepapers. We're talking EMAILS sent to prospective clients that lift words straight out of others' previously published material. That's far more deliberate.
  
  When you read that second article, it sounds like we're also talking about attempts to brush things under the rug.
  
  And with all due respect to PeakProficiency, I don't suspect a lot of people are lured in to a back and forth about a sales trainer plagiarizing material. I can't fathom that any of these posts on the subject will be on Geoffrey's Top 50 all-time list for pageviews.

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  ingoodcompany10/24/08 Report as spam
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  Stop it. Just stop it.

  You made your point. Now why not leave it alone. What do you have to gain by continuing this?

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  globalsherpa10/24/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Alleged Plagiarist Guru Pleads His Case

  Maybe the point is that plagiarism isn't a substitute for effort and that there are ongoing repercussions involved if you decide to cheat and steal.
  
  The thing to be gained is to make sure it doesn't happen again. And for people who actually live and breathe this stuff, who spend long hours traveling, talking to clients, formulating ideas, and putting those ideas to paper to be rewarded without the fear of theft.
  
  If you make your living off of the insights you provide to your clients... shouldn't those insights be yours, or if not yours, at least be attributed to the proper source? Plain and simple this person is a sham, and should be called out as such with vigor.
  
  What mercy has this person shown to the people he victimized that he deserves mercy in turn? I hate to sound like Cotton Mather... but crying foul for bringing this person to light seems unjustified.

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  may0810/24/08 Report as spam
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  Lessons Learned

  "ingoodcompany" I think the biggest reason I've follow this is the lessons learned I'm finding at each post.
  
  Like Goeffrey states - a social service more or less - to out Bob Beck.
  
  The lessons learned are from Bob's point of view, Geoffrey's, those who originated the content, users of the internet in general for reasearch purposes.
  
  Imagine those that quote Bob Beck and sited his materials - now they too are victims of perpetuating this plagiarism.
  
  As an internet based public figure, Bob Beck should not expect the same level of anonymity someone who does not project himself out on the internet might.
  
  If it were an allegations one couldn't readily prove in this medium I would side with you. But there is no need for a jury to weigh the facts - the facts abound that plagiarism took place and Bob being the owner of the firm and the associated website, he needs to take the liability as well as the benefits from the site.
  
  I personally learned a great deal - make sure no matter what you post online - you check and double check the source. And I've learned that my apprehension in being an internet based public figure is well founded. There is a lot of responsiblity that comes with any public visibility - and unfortunately people seem to need reminding of that from time to time.
  
  This incident served that purpose and as we discuss it will continue to bring lessons forward for all who participate or publish online.

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  Cfrancis10/24/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Alleged Plagiarist Guru Pleads His Case

  What is to be gained?
  
  Rightful ownership of your original thoughts. In our business we are paid for our expertise. If Bob, or anyone is pretending to be an expert by using other people's stuff....well besides illegal, it's deceitful. I feel sorry for his clients who have paid good money for him to teach them what other people think. especially ironic because he is a "trusted advisor"
  
  I also find it abhorrent that he hides behind the intern. I wonder if he teaches his CEO clients to throw their employees under the bus as well.
  
  My work has been stolen word for word. Check out a sample comparison at:
  
  http://www.engageselling.com/blog/?p=561
  
  Makes me laugh because the only thing he changed was a quote from Dan Kennedy that I used. He kept the quote but changed who he attributed it too. So, not only did he technically steal from me, but also from Dan.
  
  I am sure that Dan would be less than impressed.
  
  I am trying to channel my inner Buddha on this issue but the "hounds" keep rising to the surface!
  
  Colleen

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  Bob Wileman10/24/08 Report as spam
  9

  RE: Alleged Plagiarist Guru Pleads His Case

  This is not an area of scientific research and discovery.
  Nothing is really new and original, but some people have a talent for packaging and presenting ideas and relating their experiences in ways that help others to learn. As soon as you publish something, whether or not you get paid for it, you can be sure it will be copied. I would take that as a compliment and leave it at that.

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  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine10/24/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Alleged Plagiarist Guru Pleads His Case

  QUOTE:
  This is not an area of scientific research and discovery.
  Nothing is really new and original,
  
  
  I could not disagree more strongly. Beck's "Quid Pro Quo" selling concept is highly original, which is why it astounds me that he'd feel it necessary to borrow from elsewhere. Why not just continue to ride that market differentiator?

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  e1wood10/24/08 Report as spam
  11

  From a salesperson's perspective....

  ...it doesn't take long in life to learn to give credit where credit is due, whether it's your competitor or your boss...it's just THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
  
  I don't know a Beck from a James, I come here and get the emails because I don't know it all, nobody does, and if I can get one bit of knowledge a week, I'm better on Friday than Monday.
  
  Let it go, it's Beck's Karma that's in the tank, and he'll pay, trust me.
  
  Have a great Friday, I learned something this week, so it was a good one!
  
  L'wood

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  DrBruin10/24/08 Report as spam
  12

  RE: Alleged Plagiarist Guru Pleads His Case

  As the author of 3 books and numerous articles, I've had my work stolen three times and in every case was outraged. The first instance was by a well-known consultant who republished and sold to Microsoft one of my articles. When I confronted him, he said it was an "accident" and he had no idea how it happened. The second was a "sales consultant" who attended my seminar and copied my worbook and slides word for word, then resold the training as his own. The third was a company that viewed a demo of our software application, talked with us for several months about it, and then created their own version of it and began selling it in competition with us.
  
  In every case, these cheats cost us money we should have made. But interestingly in every case, the cheats failed. The first guy is out of the industry now. The second guy has completely disappeared off the planet as far as I can tell. And the company that tried to steal our intellectual capital is barely limping along.
  
  Moral of the story: there are idiots out there, but they will almost always fail because it takes more than stole content to be a success. We might call this the "quid pro quo" principle of plagiarism.