Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

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  Steve Tobak10/14/08 Report as spam
  1

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  Geoffrey,
  
  Nice post. I actually agree with most of what you say, but you mischaracterized my post in a few ways. For example:
  
  You said, "With all due respect to Steve??? horsefeathers. Products and services create the emotional attributes that get attached to your corporate name."
  
  I said, "Brand reputation is a function of experience with your company and its products. It???s the sum total of many things, including product features, quality and reliability, customer service, even executive presentations. It goes way beyond marketing, PR, ad campaigns, and websites."
  
  Not sure where the disagreement was there.
  
  Judging from your post, we clearly have different perspectives. Mine comes from probably too many years in executive management and running marketing and sales organizations in high-tech. It is what it is. Hopefully, it offers BNET's readers a useful perspective.
  
  That said, I like your way of looking at things. Just try not to mischaracterize my views.
  
  Thanks,
  Steve Tobak
  
  
  
  I like your perspective

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  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine10/14/08 Report as spam
  2

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  QUOTE: It goes way beyond marketing, PR, ad campaigns, and websites.
  
  First of all, Steve, love your writing. Great stuff. Really insightful.
  
  
  
  I understand (and tried to reflect in the post) that you were referring to larger issues than traditional marketing deliverables. My argument is that treating operational and tactical issues as being under a "branding strategy" umbrella adds nothing to the ability to execute those tactics and instead encourages spending on the wrong sort of marketing, PR, ad campaigns and websites.

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  Phillip Maddox10/14/08 Report as spam
  3

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  Geoffrey, I think all too often people are quick to condemn branding when really a brand is the sum of it's parts. Brand strategy, to me, is extremely important. I think for any business who plans on having more than a handful of employees and doing large scale business with real competition MUST have a brand and a procured image that goes along with it.
  
  I have told clients many times that if the ship has a hole in the hull, a beautiful, new sail isn't going to fool people into getting on board...for long anyway. This is, of course, referring to your comments on a glossing things over with a new logo.
  
  A brand will exist whether a business intends for one to exist or not. It is simply the representation of what the company stands for and what it's products / services stand for. However, I don't think anyone would argue that this "self-induced" branding is extremely valuable.
  
  Therefore, why would you NOT hire a professional to steer the ship in the right direction?

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  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine10/14/08 Report as spam
  4

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  QUOTE: why would you NOT hire a professional to steer the ship in the right direction?
  
  Because it is NOT the business of marketing to be "steering the ship." Marketing provides services to the Sales group. They generate leads and find other ways to reduce sales cost. One way is to work public image issues, which is basic donkey work.
  
  
  
  The entire problem with marketing lies in the sad fact that it's gotten way too big for its britches. Marketeers pretend that they can actually DO something to influence how people perceive the company and its products. But they can't because public image (brand) is imply a reflection of a company's products and services.
  
  
  
  Looking at business through the lens of "branding strategy" puts the wrong people -- marketing -- in control. All marketing should be in control of is 1) lead generation and 2) reducing sales costs. Marketing groups are not capable of defining new products (because they aren't engineers), determining sales messages (because they can't sell) or most emphatically setting corporate direction.
  
  
  
  Gee, I think this should be sufficiently obvious to anyone who has watched a marketing group try to do any one of those three things.

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  Rob Hayes10/15/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  It's good to see that the conflict between sales and marketing is alive and well - healthy tension makes organisations work better - destructive politics is , however , a more serious issue.
  The debate about who runs the company (whether it be Sales, Marketing, HR , Finance or any other function) is an often circumstantially driven debate. The real challenge which is about making customers aware of , value and buy your products at a price which makes sustainable profit.Focusing company strategy and senior executives and their people on customer is the real trick to long term sustainability. Allied to a culture and people that can rapidly adapt to change through, for example, short reporting lines, great and meaningful MI and excellent cross fuctional teamwork.
  
  "Marketing is everything" as my former boss used to say,motivated largely by a political ability second to none - but so is finance,sales,HR, IT etc. Knowing which function has the highest focus (or takes a lead) at any particular time is largely circumstantial and will vary netween organisations - being live to real customer needs ,able to adapt, and change are the real keys.

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  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine10/15/08 Report as spam
  6

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  QUOTE: The debate about who runs the company (whether it be Sales, Marketing, HR , Finance or any other function) is an often circumstantially driven debate.
  
  True, but of these functions, which ones could disappear and still leave a functioning company in place?

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  frankadnh10/15/08 Report as spam
  7

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  Geoffrey - comment on this thought you presented......"treating operational and tactical issues as being under a "branding strategy" umbrella adds nothing to the ability to execute those tactics and instead encourages spending on the wrong sort of marketing, PR, ad campaigns and websites.".....
  
  Both Sales and Marketing (and any other business functions for that matter) can be "off brand" in their approach. If operational and tactical activities are executed "off brand" they can be detrimental to a brand???s Customer Value Proposition/differentiation. Good marketing departments and professionals (OK, define that I know), work both with and for all stakeholders on each customer touch point with the brand, i.e. the notion of consistent messaging and 360 degree branding.
  
  So, the ability to execute, and HOW you do it are two different items in my POV. "Off brand" can be something like sales of customer service sending out an "off brand" communication, for example, a condescending tome from a 24/7 service brand. An IT group could develop a web site with very complex features and navigation for a brand that offers ease, speed, and simplicity at its core.
  
  The brand/business logo color, shape, and number of impressions are only one item of MANY in good brand management and marketing strategy execution.

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  middleaged10/15/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  At the risk of annoying Geoffrey, I have alwasy been taught that sales is part of Marketing, and as such marketing does not support sales.
  Sales (Direct Face to face sales) is one of the tools that can be used to increase sales.
  
  This is an area that confuses many organisations, leading to people having ridiculous titles like Sales and Marketing Director.
  
  In terms of Brand and Brand Strategy, this is not something that can be stuck on, but has to align with the core of the organisations overall strategy and objectives otherwise it is just 'lipstick on a pig'.
  
  I have however seen far too many examples like the ones that Geoffrey refers to, where the marketing types (you can tell I'm a salesman) come out with the most ridiculous nonsense, without involving anyone else in the organisation.
  
  Result - Trite one liner that invites ridicule.

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  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine10/15/08 Report as spam
  9

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  QUOTE: At the risk of annoying Geoffrey, I have alwasy been taught that sales is part of Marketing, and as such marketing does not support sales.
  
  Ouch! Am I really that irritable?
  
  
  
  In any case, you've been told wrong. Marketing is a service function to Sales. When companies get this backwards it raises the cost of sales and decreases revenue. Marketing isn't supposed to be driving anything. They're supposed to do the donkey work of selling -- generating leads and coming up with ways to reduce sales costs.

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  middleaged10/16/08 Report as spam
  10

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  A quick read of Kotler may help clarify this.
  
  Sales is part of Marketing. Marketing being the sum of all customer interactions.

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  emilT10/16/08 Report as spam
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  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  While I certainly agree about branding not being able to put value in inferior products / companies I do think it plays a vital role where products are indistinguishable and needs to be differentiated somehow, think about light lager beer for example. In those cases branding is not waste of money but rather product development.

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  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine10/16/08 Report as spam
  12

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  QUOTE: A quick read of Kotler may help clarify this.
  
  Kotler is right in theory but wrong in practice. Folding all customer interactions under "marketing" is like having your 14 year old daughter make your family's financial decisions.

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  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine10/16/08 Report as spam
  13

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  QUOTE from emilT: It plays a vital role where products are indistinguishable
  
  Some other commenters have also pointed out that branding plays a more important role in B2C than in B2B. However, differentiating based upon brand gives you a very small competitive advantage that's easily undercut in a price war. I can show you companies in B2B that have NO brand (other than reputation) who move commodity products in vast volumes and have strategic relationship with their customers. They do it by taking on the responsibility for that function and owning it as an outsourcer. I suspect the same thing could work in B2C.

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  Ajibola10/17/08 Report as spam
  14

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  Both Sales and Marketing are equally important. I would say hand in glove. Marketing is important to bring the customers in. Give you a foot in the door. For B2C it has to finish the job of sales but only after the sales people get the products on the shelves. But for B2B the salesman, the product and service delivery close the deal. In complex organisations where marketing relies on research one cannot exclude the input of the sales team, researches cannot pick up non verbal communication and there is a lot said non verbally.
  
  In everything we do in our company everyone thinks about the customer and this is what it is all about. The customer must understand this and I believe that this is what makes the difference between success and failure.

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  dmorabito@...10/17/08 Report as spam
  15

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  Geoffrey, you should have been a brain surgeon. They don't think they need anyone either.

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  phildobbie10/28/08 Report as spam
  16

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  Quote: Marketeers pretend that they can actually DO something to influence how people perceive the company and its products. But they can't because public image (brand) is imply a reflection of a company's products and services.
  
  This really depends on whether you're in the B2B or B2C space. In the B2C space marketing would be defining the product, and would/should be designing that to satisfy or enhance the perceived brand of the company.

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  randym@...10/28/08 Report as spam
  17

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  Geoffrey Geoffrey Geoffrey,
  
  I don't think I've ever heard such self righteous wide sweeping dribble. Marketing puts the tools in the hand of sales to make their job easier. Branding provides a look and feel that a prospect wants to deal with. When I go to the web to look for something, I am going to buy from someone who has their act together. Chances are that I already know what I want to buy when I call the "salesman" because marketing has already done a great job with the "donkey work". Go soak your head you obvious genius.

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  Hodini12/12/08 Report as spam
  18

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  There is only one true road to brand building which stems from have great product - it isn't built in a day, its like wish to building an enduring relationship in flash. As to relationship building, brands' are build through a lifetime. Incases where marketing managers just want to impress without findout where to hinge and build upon the intrinsic value(s) of product, they choose the short-cut route to glossing - which to me is lip service, because this often don't evoke recallable emotion-where true brands actually lives. Recognised connect with a product i agree is what branding is all about. Brand must be known for providing that unmatched value within its genre. Mudi

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  dtaylor_UNT12/23/08 Report as spam
  19

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  I can't believe that I just read from someone who claims to be a business expert that "marketing is a service function to sales."
  
  That is an outrageous claim, and it is you, Geoffrey, who have it backwards. Marketing, by definition, is creating products that satisfy wants and needs, selecting the right distribution/logistical strategy, pricing/positioning strategies and promotion. The latter is possibly the least important.
  
  According to the author, all of these things -- product development, distribution, positioning and promotion -- exist to support sales, which is somehow considered distinct from promotion and distribution. No amount of contorted logic can defend this ludicrous proposition.
  
  If you contort definitions enough (e.g. insisting that a brand is distinct from the products it is attached to), I suppose you can make a case for your position about a brand "boondoggle." In reality, however, a brand is the sum total of both product attributes and user attitudes. The two are inexorably intertwined. A crappy product can ruin a good brand name, and a lousy brand rep can ruin a good product. Similarly, a good brand rep can shore up a crappy product.
  
  Stick to writing about sales.

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  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine12/23/08 Report as spam
  20

  RE: Brand Strategy = Marketing Boondoggle

  Quote: Marketing, by definition, is creating products that satisfy wants and needs, selecting the right distribution/logistical strategy, pricing/positioning strategies and promotion.Define it that way if you like, but marketers who haven't designed products can't create products, marketers who haven't sold can't correctly determine distribution strategy or pricing and positioning. They can do promotion, though, because that's basically unskilled labor.
  
  
  
  Your statement that "a good brand rep can shore up a crappy product" is completely dysfunctional, BTW. That's never been the case and never will be the case. Branding is a boondoogle and marketers that focus on it are basically parasitical.