Question-and-Answer Session
Operator
(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from Vernon Plack - BB&T Capital Markets.
Vernon Plack - BB&T Capital Markets
Bill, I had a question about overhead at this point. Given the fact that you've reduced headcount in 2008, what about for right now, is headcount, is your overhead at a place where you want it to be? Can that number come down further? What are you thinking?
Bill Walton
Well, I think you've seen what we've done with the expense piece is we've reduced bonuses. I mean, we only paid out about $1 million in 2008, so I think we've taken care of the employee expense through that and through the bonus thinking.
We think our staffing is appropriate right now because we still have a large portfolio. We're in a time of sort of maximum stress, but on the other hand we think there's a lot of long-term value creation from the companies in the portfolio which is going to require people to work with those portfolio companies to either fix a model that's sideways in this environment or work with them on acquisitions to grow the business. So we don't want to cut anymore from where we are, at least as we see things now, because we think there's a lot more upside in the portfolio than there is downside.
Vernon Plack - BB&T Capital Markets
And the dividend credit in the fourth quarter of $5.9 million, Joan, I know you explained that a little but, but could you go over that again, please?
Joan Sweeney
Yes. It simply was a reclassification. We received a distribution in the fourth quarter from some portfolio companies. At that time their tax estimate was such that it was dividend income. It turns out based on their revised tax estimate it's capital gain income. It's that simple.
Bill Walton
And also to amplify my earlier answer, I think the asset management business which Rob described is something that we think we're pretty well positioned to build. While we don't have access to capital on our balance sheet, we intend to have access to capital from other sources and we want to keep the investment team, the senior piece, the mezzanine piece, the buyout piece and the real estate piece, intact. I think that's the way to look forward long term for our shareholders.
Vernon Plack - BB&T Capital Markets
Could you give me the current fair value of Ciena, the fair value as of the end of the fourth quarter?
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