Question-and-Answer Session
Operator
(Operator Instructions). We'll take you first question from Rich Wesolowski with Sidoti & Company.
Richard Wesolowski - Sidoti & Co
Thanks, good morning.
Jeff Feller
Good morning Rich.
Stephen Romano
Good morning Rich.
Richard Wesolowski - Sidoti & Co
I have heard some of the broader waste companies talk about a big pull back in special waste volume, which I think is about the closest thing to what you do. By what degree has your outlook for the base business changed, since the third quarter call?
Stephen Romano
I think the best way to look at that is to look at some of the different sectors. Some things are looking positive, some things are looking likely down. If I can I'm going to ahead and go through it piece-by-piece. As I mentioned, the steel mill production is down. We recently saw a letter from the Steel Manufacturers Association to the President indicating a reduction in the range of 50% for national steel production. That's certainly going to effect us.
We talked with the broker business a little earlier. That is an area that we've grown substantially in recent years and I did note that we saw a 2% of sequential decline when you strip out the thermal desorption contribution.
So we did see some softness developing in the fourth quarter and we have seen that continuing into '09 so far this year. With limited visibility on the generators, because we are serving the broker as our customer, we are taking a conservative outlook on the broker business. The other area in general with reduced industrial production, chemical manufacturing, our other industry category is an area where we are projecting that base in the general economy, there maybe some softness.
On the refinery area, on the strength of our newly introduced thermal desorption service, we do see a solid pipeline there. We believe that that's an area we can continue to grow as mentioned during my remarks earlier.
There is a certain amount of government business, which is non-based, which is non-event. We believe that continue being solid. And our rate regulated business in Washington will be solid. So perhaps the best way to look at it is that on the base business side it depends on the kind of waste generator we're talking about.
Richard Wesolowski - Sidoti & Co
Okay, thanks for that. I got a little turned around when you were giving your stats on the broker business with and without the refinery thermal. By my math, you had a 2.9 million increase sequentially in your broker T&D revenue, and yet you had $2 million of thermal contribution, is that correct?
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