'Woo' Factor: Persuasion and Power

Eric: Richard Shell is a man who wants to win you over. And in so doing to help you win others over yourself. He's the director of the Executive Negotiation Workshop at the Wharton School, and the author of a couple of books about persuading people to see things your way. His latest book, the Art of Woo, is about a business all of us are in one way or another, selling ideas. Thanks for joining us, Richard. Robert Shell: Eric, my pleasure.

Eric: There have been lots of books about persuading, from Getting to Yes, to Getting Your Way. What makes the Art of Woo different? Robert Shell: We -- the book actually came from our negotiation work, and what we discovered was that over 50% of people who come to negotiation courses are really trying to solve problems internally within organizations. So the book is directed specifically at how to be effective in persuading people within a complex organization. And there really hasn't been a book about that.

Eric: I was struck by the book's emphasis on character as one of the keys to being persuasive. Now there are lots of people with very little character who can be very persuasive. Why do you think character is key? Robert Shell: Well, character is key because in our opinion, my co-author and I, Mario Moussa , had a certain sense of responsibility. Persuasion tools are a little like nuclear power. They can be used for good or for evil. And we wanted to make sure that we wrote a book that would help people use them for good. But con artists, Bernie Madoff, are just as -- in fact in many cases some of the master persuaders are con artists. So the tools themselves are neutral. They can be used for many purposes. And we wanted to make sure that the people who used our book got at least -- our opinion -- that they ought to be used for good.

Eric: I'm going to name a few prominent people, and I'd like you to give them a review, if you would, as to how effective they are along the lines of the Art of Woo. Robert Shell: Sure.

Eric: Let's start with President Obama. Robert Shell: Well, that one's easy. President Obama is a master. He's a woo master. And his ability to show passion and commitment -- but at the same time to craft a message that the audience will be particularly likely to hear, that balance factor, is just exquisite. Now of course he has a lot of people working for him that help him to craft that message. But I think he was a born persuader in this way. If you've read his biography and auto biography, it's clear to me that he came by this skill the hard way. He really had to go through a lot of self-examination in his youth, his own identity. And that I think made him acutely aware of the social environments that he's in.

Eric: Here's a person who is probably not a born persuader, but has been thrust into the position of having to persuade. Ben Bernanke. Robert Shell: Okay. There's two extremes in persuasion. There are people who are too focused in their audience, kind of slick-willy type people. And then there are people who are totally unaware of their audience and they are kind of curmudgeons. Ben Bernanke is a little closer to the curmudgeon side. But in a way, that's the perfect persuasion style to be adopting in his particular political role. Because people want to hear what he's thinking, and they don't want to see him crafting a message for different audiences. They want to hear the voice of authority. And I think he's been pretty effective in using that voice.

Eric: Jim Kramer. Robert Shell: We have a type of person we profile in the book called the driver. And the driver is a combination of extreme extroversion and extreme self orientation. And I think Jim Kramer is about as far toward a driver as you can get. Andy Grope is another person who was like that. Very, very loud, very, very self-oriented. You know exactly where he's coming from and what he's saying. But you have to do all the adjusting.

Eric: All right. Good. Do you have a character called the terminator? How would you review Governor Schwarzenegger? Robert Shell: You know, Schwarzenegger is a very interesting case. Because he was trained as an actor. Like Ronald Reagan, I think he has a certain capacity to be audience-oriented. But he was an actor for a particular type of role, which was a very, you know, terminator type of role, very obvious, self-oriented role. So I think he's stuck with that. And so he's a little more on the Bernanke side, but with a little more craftiness. But I think, you know, part of the problem when you're governing essentially a country like California, is there's so many constituencies. And an Obama skill will take you further, I think, than a Schwarzenegger or Bernanke will. When the going gets tough, as it is here. And of course there's a limit to persuasion skills when you're in a bankrupt economy and your state has no tax revenues, really doesn't matter how persuasive you are, you've just got a big problem.

Eric: And an Austrian accent will only take you so far. Robert Shell: Right.

Eric: Richard, thanks for joining us. Robert Shell: My pleasure, Eric.

Eric: This is Eric Schoenberg for moneywatch.com. Thanks for watching.

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